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  • Forum Rules and Guidelines

    We felt it might be a good idea to create this so that members of the forum will understand what we see as appropriate while using the forum.
    • General Behavior
      • Please do your best to maintain a sense of etiquette and decorum. Snide or condescending remarks are not necessary.
    • Keep Threads On Topic
      • This will help the forum make more sense as people browse. If the conversation goes off topic, or you want to discuss another topic, please begin another thread in the appropriate location.
    • No SPAM
      • SPAM will not be allowed.
      • This definition can be very broad, but if you think it might be SPAM, please don’t post it, unless we’re talking about the canned meat in off-topic forums
      • There is a classifieds section in the forum. That is the place to sell, discuss selling, jobs wanted, offered, etc. Keep in mind the scope is also limited here. There are many places available online to sell anything that doesn’t fit into the scope of what we provide here.
    • No Personal Attacks
      • Personal attacks will not be tolerated.
    • Profanity/Vulgarity
      • Let’s keep it clean. This may be considered a gray area by some of what would be profane or vulgar and then deemed inappropriate – but, the final say will be ours as to what will or will not be inappropriate.
    • Certain Responses That Might Offend
      • If someone suggests that reading the help/manual might be an appropriate action, might be worth considering. There is a lot of information contained there.
      • If someone tells you you’re doing it wrong or finds fault in your code, take a step back, take a deep breath, simply consider there are many ways to accomplish many things in the software development realm, and we may all have an idea or answer we feel is best.

    On all of the above – we will make our best effort to communicate when or where we feel something is off topic, inappropriate, etc. If a problem persists, or is taken to an extreme, we will remove access to the forum.

    The forum software has a feature that will allow you to report a post if it needs to be brought to our attention. Please do not be afraid to use this feature, as it is possible we will not see every single post on the forum.

    On the world wide web, it is easy for language to be misunderstood since the communication is not actually occurring in person. Let’s all do what we can to make this be a happy place to interact.

    These rules may be modified at any time without notice.
    Last edited by Adam J. Drake; 27 Apr 2017, 03:51 PM.
    Adam Drake
    Drake Software

  • #2
    Thank you Adam,
    In order to promote fairness, understanding, and general good natured behavior please remove this emoji.



    • #3
      What's the matter with "Read The Friendly Manual"? It represents some of the most often needed advice.


      • #4
        Ha Ha Dale,
        I think Adam was referring to the other embedded meanings of things. Certain Responses That Might Offend


        • #5
          RTFM has been here a long time, I meant it about being useful advice, and anyone offended that easily (and probably a busy body besides) can take the "other" meaning you mentioned from me as an editorial comment. Cheers Jim! WWAAYY too much effort being PC (not the personal computer PC)


          • #6
            Hi Adam, there are only a few bad apples, but unfortunately these apples can turn the forum upside down and place PowerBasic Inc into disrepute.
            So there is a need to suspend their accounts when the situation gets uglier. Please enforce these rules to weed out those who behave badly
            otherwise it can cost PowerBasic Inc monies and reputation.


            • #7
              Well Dale,
              I guess I do get a little AR (Not Argumentative Responsive). Just trying to provide conformity/equality across the vast wilderness. Manuals are good! Obvious browbeating is NOT no matter what you prefer to call it. I'm just saying...


              • #8
                Call me old-fashioned, but if the answer to the question is in the manual (where it should be, meaning you can find it), then the best answer is to direct the questioner to the manual.

                Now call me really old fashioned: You should not be asking your peers to address questions you should have been able to answer yourself... or to write code for you when you have not tried to do it yourself... or to ask others to test things for you when you should have been able to test it yourself, or performing a Forum or full Internet search for you when you could have done it yourself.

                It really comes down to your definition of "peer support." In My World 'Peer Support' does NOT include 'doing it for you' and it's even rude to ask. YMMV.
                Michael Mattias
                Tal Systems Inc.
                Racine WI USA


                • #9
                  Yes, I agree.
                  How about this....
                  "To the manual my dear Watson. To the manual."


                  • #10


                    • #11
                      Well said Anne.

                      PB's User Forum (Community) has had a reputation for friendly professionalism, helping one another, examples and solutions for any user, new or experienced. Restoring the guidelines is a positive step toward the goal of restoring the forum's reputation. Therefore applying them is what will accomplish this aim. If all of Adam's guidelines are applied, more users will come to the forum. That benefits all users as well as the future of PB.

                      By way of example, sarcasm is not helpful to any whose family, cultural or similar upbringing does not tolerate or use sarcasm in any form (humorous or other,) but instead will take such negatively. Humor in one culture is not necessarily the same in another. Fact. Common sense applies here, not PC rules. If we apply Adam's (PB's) guidelines to our forum topic conversations we can better help any user.

                      The guidelines obviously do not support any divisive, factional rivalry or rhetoric between users over any programming decisions that PB enables, e.g. DDT, SDK/direct API programming, In-line assembler, wrapped APIs and combinations of these. PB is a superlative approach to BASIC and beyond styles of programming. Many purchased it for what it can do for them now and in the future. PB helps users with differing needs, skills and resources in meeting their programming needs. Divisive factions help no one further PB or programming ... end of story.

                      The same goes for vulgar words and profanity. US professionals are disciplined / terminated for offensive use of profanity / vulgarity in the workplace. This is done there to avoid lawsuits and maintain a cooperative professional environment. It works. For PB users, this users forum is "ours" to further our craft. "Alternate wording" of a vulgar acronym?, really does not cut it. Most "know" the common wording or will see it on Googling the acronym. Simply put, the use of profanity/vulgarity is not related to professionalism, but to how individuals converse in their local culture. This on the other hand is an international culture. <

                      Keeping the conversations here "clean" invites any user into the forum where they will want to come back again and again. That's more or less how the community used to be, that is what is needed again as well as to be even more inclusive.
                      Rick Angell


                      • #12
                        When I first saw RTFM, I thought it meant Read The FULL Manual. Oh myyyyy.

                        I don't mind if the emoji is removed.

                        But, if there's no emoji, some will just use the old fashioned RTFM by using letters from the alphabet. It's what follows that really matters. I've seen RTFM responses that are followed up with good links and/or key words to help the OP search for the answer. And I've seen some good questions, comments, ideas, and even some examples that follow an initial RTFM that I've learned from... even when I thought I knew the answer. I knew an answer, but not necessarily the best answer.

                        I think Anne has a good point. And, I believe PowerBASIC has done a pretty good job at keeping this a good place to share and learn.

                        And, might this be the replacement emoji? Click image for larger version

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                        Attached Files
                        ... .... . ... . . ... ... .... . .. ... .... .. ... .... .. .... ..

                        n6jah @


                        • #13
                          The word "Full" for the third letter! I can get behind that!

                          No manual in that emoji, and smoking illegal (even outdoors in some places.

                          Good go Jim.


                          • #14
                            It's a bubble pipe now... OK? Sherlock_2.jpg
                            Last edited by Jim Robinson; 27 Mar 2017, 07:39 PM.
                            ... .... . ... . . ... ... .... . .. ... .... .. ... .... .. .... ..

                            n6jah @


                            • #15
                              Well, RTFM could be changed to RTMF as in 'Read The Manual First'.
                              Those of us that are a tad slydexic won't even notice.
                              "To every unsung hero in the universe
                              To those who roam the skies and those who roam the earth
                              To all good men of reason may they never thirst " - from "Heaven Help the Devil" by G. Lightfoot


                              • #16
                                two words


                                • #17
                                  Good one Rodney. You the man.


                                  • #18
                                    Three letters express the "manual" suggestion in a neutral manner. RTM just says the "Read The Manual". Short and to the point. For many RTM comments by some, there are other users who often quote an applicable part of a manual page and may also suggest RTM for the a more complete understanding. In some conversations , the issue may suggest what a poster thought they read or did not read accurately, thus a quote which by a quoted excerpt from the manual, that directly references the problem they are having makes their day. IOW, it is better not to assume they have not tried to the manual ... especially where English may not be their first language.
                                    Rick Angell


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by Richard Angell View Post

                                      Keeping the conversations here "clean" invites any user into the forum where they will want to come back again and again. That's more or less how the community used to be, that is what is needed again as well as to be even more inclusive.
                                      I would challenge this

                                      We have had some fantastic arguments on this forum. (Do you remember that comment from someone 'here we go again' - really funny?)

                                      Sometimes our arguments are about styles of programming and related subjects rather than detailed codes as such. Sometimes our discussions have been about subjects which are not really related to programming (Is your god a programmer? is that a programming question?)

                                      Of course our emphasis should be on programming support for each other and communication with PB

                                      But I have always enjoyed hearing what other like minded people think about the world. We are people who run our lives on the strict logic of our computers and because of our discipline we have a unique way of looking at the world. I like thinking about this. I like talking to other people and debating what this means. So we do need to have that option please - maybe in a way that you can opt out through the use of the cafe type forums.

                                      [I]I made a coding error once - but fortunately I fixed it before anyone noticed[/I]
                                      Kerry Farmer


                                      • #20
                                        Its usually the case that someone who jumps up onto their high horse on pseudo morality grounds falls off the other side and lands badly. Forum's are populated by people and people need to be treated like people but in doing so you need to learn what diversity is about. This forum used to be a forum of friends who at the peer level helped each other out and were willing to help new folk get up and going but over time this has been slowly eroded and since Bob passed away it has come close to collapsing into a bitching, whinging cat scratching competition.

                                        The real culprit here is INFLUENCE PEDDLING with little self perceived empires skulking around in the shadows trying to out do each other and in doing so they have collectively reduced this forum to a pale shadow of its former self. So many of the really highly skilled people have faded away and the few that have made the effort are attacked by the ever grinding mediocrity that does its best to reduce everyone else to their level.

                                        In particular I will mention the appalling performance in attacking Michael Mattias over an expression like "Suzy User" which everyone and their dog knows is a non sexist reference to an ordinary computer user without the gender bias of it having to be a MALE user. Over many years Michael has spent his spare time and years of expertise helping out a massive number of people who were either learning or struggling with complex problems in software design while his critics sat on the fat ass mouthing pseudo moral platitudes and not contributing anything like the time and expertise that Michael has delivered for so long. A simple case of influence peddling versus time and effort.

                                        Now as an Aussie my response is to treat this form of nonsense as equestrian fertiliser (the horse version of BS) and extract the excess left over liquid (take the p*ss out of) anyone or anything that does something that stupid. My favourite in response to "Suzy User" was "Fluzy (AB)user" which is tongue in cheek accusing the phantom user of being immoral, gender inferior and stupid.

                                        Now there are some very basic things when it comes to both running a forum and being a member of a forum, treat people like people, not just some abstract entity on the other end of a handle, ensure that direct abuse is not tolerated and limit any expletives to common non offensive idiom that most around the world understand. As far a "rtFm" I would suggest that it has none to do with ensuring the human race pro-creates and mainly to do with emphasis on reading the MANUAL.
                                        hutch at movsd dot com
                                        The MASM Forum