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  • Been away from the forums for a while. Just read through the last 5 or so pages. Just wanted Drake to know that some of less vocal forum members are still here and interested in PowerBASIC's future. I don't have any real expectations or suggestions. I'm still not utilizing the full potential of the existing PB. My clients aren't yet making any noises about 64 bit although I'm sure that will eventually happen in the years to come.
    Bernard Ertl
    InterPlan Systems

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    • Posted the wrong pic and can't delete the post.

      Can an administrator remove this post for me?

      Comment


      • Originally posted by JR Spikowski View Post
        Posted the wrong pic and can't delete the post.

        Can an administrator remove this post for me?
        Still a cool picture. My father sold a software package in the 1980s and 1990s and he originally used a Compaq luggable to demonstrate it. Truly fascinating piece of equipment. The software was written for the apparel business, manufacturing specifically, which was once a thriving business in NYC.

        Comment


        • We are stuck on 16 bit code for many more years. So 64 bit just will not be necessary for our use that I can see unless there is an awesome 16 bit emulator. We used z80 cpm code till the middle year of 2006 and I purchased Powerbasic products when I found them even not using it for a few years. I will purchase the the software no matter what comes to help support continued development of Powerbasic products. I feel I will need and can use Powerbasic in the future.
          p purvis

          Comment


          • Making promises without having a very high degree of certainty re how and how long
            is a recipe for disappointment if not disaster.
            Drake have already said they're still in "fathoming" mode
            so it's difficult to understand why the gap isn't sufficiently obvious
            to preclude requests for declarations in blood at this stage.
            Last edited by Dean Gwilliam; 15 Jun 2017, 12:47 PM.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by James OShea View Post
              My father sold a software package in the 1980s and 1990s and he originally used a Compaq luggable to demonstrate it.
              In 1978, IBM even declared the IBM 5110 a portable system...



              „Let the machine do the dirty work.“
              The Elements of Programming Style, Brian W. Kernighan, P. J. Plauger 1978

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Steve Hutchesson View Post
                James,

                > I am curious as to what upgrades to the current 32 bit PB compilers you feel are needed.

                I don't personally need any extras as I write API based code with a generous smattering of assembler with PB, mainly for my simpler tools, but this is not normally the case with most PB users. The 32 bit market is slowly fading so any improvements that make the punters happy is a good idea, even though I will never use them. My primary programming language is Microsoft assembler ( MASM ) in both 32 and 64 bit with the shift mainly to 64 bit so I am not hanging out for a 64 bit PB version but if it becomes a reality, I will buy it if it is well done and powerful enough.

                Now if you enjoy working with a terse bad mannered pig like 64 bit MASM, the sky is the limit, massive amount of grunt, multi gigabytes of available memory, native 64 bit instructions up to AVX2 and fast enough to make mere mortals wet themselves.
                Steve, take a look at some source codes (fasm code) supplied with Menuet OS: http://www.menuetos.net/app64.zip - with bunch of 64bit registers you can do great stuff !
                So, in 64bits there are many ways of handling the fast math, strings, lists and arrays... let's see it and wish Drake Co success.



                Comment


                • Aslan,

                  FASM is in fact a good tool but you have to have a TASM background to use it where I come from a MASM background that uses the strict Intel notation and I find bracketed addressing a pain to use and slow to code. I am using a 2017 version of 64 bit MASM that happily accesses all of the 16 integer registers, all variants of SSE, AVX and AVX2 and a very well behaved set of macros that make it usable so I don't really need to look at alternatives. The guys who are developing forks of the older JWASM seem to be doing OK and they may even finish them in my lifetime but I wanted a properly supported 64 bit assembler and MASM does the job just fine. Here is a short example for part of a a line tokeniser I have finished recently.

                  Code:
                  ; ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤
                  
                  NOSTACKFRAME                            ; stackframe not needed for pure mnemonic algorithm
                  
                   lfstrip@@@@ proc ptxt:QWORD
                    ; -----------------------------------------
                    ; strip ascii 10s and return the line count
                    ; -----------------------------------------
                      mov r11, ptxt                       ; src
                      mov r10, ptxt                       ; dst
                      xor r9, r9                          ; counter
                      sub r11, 1
                      jmp lbst
                  
                    pre:
                      add r9, 1                           ; increment the ascii 10 counter
                    lbst:
                      add r11, 1
                      movzx rax, BYTE PTR [r11]           ; zero extend byte
                      cmp rax, 10                         ; test for ASCII 10
                      je pre
                  
                      mov BYTE PTR [r10], al              ; write everything except ascii 10s
                      add r10, 1
                      test rax, rax                       ; test for 0 AFTER its written
                      jnz lbst
                  
                      mov rax, r9                         ; return the ascii 10 count (line feed count)
                  
                      ret
                  
                   lfstrip@@@@ endp
                  
                  STACKFRAME                              ; restore auto stack frame
                  
                  ; ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤
                  hutch at movsd dot com
                  The MASM Forum

                  www.masm32.com

                  Comment


                  • Thank you for nice peace of code.
                    Right now I'm working in *NIX environment with lot of asm inlines inside C code. It's "looking ugly" but performing my tasks. Customer doesn't care on OS selection, so moving project to MenuetOS.
                    This is a rare example, where customer is looking for final product, but not for fancier design.
                    Have a nice day!

                    Comment


                    • --
                      Last edited by Donald Montaine; Yesterday, 07:53 PM.
                      Donald Montaine

                      Comment


                      • Well said Don
                        We really do need a 64 bit PowerBasic compiler. Please, when can we buy one?

                        Comment


                        • Is this whining anything more than the "beached whale" syndrome trying to further damage PowerBASIC over and above what has been done for the last few years since Bob passed away ? PB does not have a 64 bit compiler at the moment and if enough people do enough damage to the company with their endless whining, there never will be.

                          There is a solution, go and learn another language for 64 bit code, all it means is you have to get off your behind and actually learn something new instead of whining about what you don't have. If PB end up creating a 64 bit compiler, I will buy it if it works properly but like many others I am not holding my breath and happily write in another 64 bit language.
                          hutch at movsd dot com
                          The MASM Forum

                          www.masm32.com

                          Comment


                          • Pity the "Like" button still doesn't work. If it did, I would have "Like"d. Steve's post.

                            Give it a rest people! Drake will or won't come out with a 64 bit compiler some time in the future and all of your whining and demands for predictions won't change the outcome one iota.
                            --
                            [URL="http://www.camcopng.com"]CAMCo - Applications Development & ICT Consultancy[/URL][URL="http://www.hostingpng.com"]
                            PNG Domain Hosting[/URL]

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Steve Hutchesson View Post
                              Is this whining anything more than the "beached whale" syndrome trying to further damage PowerBASIC over and above what has been done for the last few years since Bob passed away ? PB does not have a 64 bit compiler at the moment and if enough people do enough damage to the company with their endless whining, there never will be.
                              While I don't think all the pleading will speed the introduction of 64 bit PB, I don't think it is damaging PB either. We are kind of a closed community here. Ultimately, people need to do what's best for themselves. I am under no pressure to produce 64 bit software so I can afford a wait and see attitude. You are correct that people who have an immediate need for 64 bit should look into other compilers. There are other BASIC compilers that are almost as good and the syntax differences are minimal. If you are a Firefly user, like myself, the alternative is easy (and very good). There is probably some pressure on Drake to produce their products in 64 bit so eventually Drake will either build a 64 bit compiler or move on to another language themselves.

                              Comment


                              • I think the thing that offended me the most after over 4 years of whining where the criticism of the existing versions of PB continued to occur when Bob died and his wife tried desperately hard to keep the company up and going, this collection of whiners while generally not having a clue kept criticising PB for not having a 64 bit compiler and as they whined away, slowly but surely drove many of the customers away. This place is a pale shadow of its former self and to be pointed, those who whined the loudest also contributed the least. Then there was the "jumping ship" brigade that found out that they drowned outside of the cloistered environment they had inhabited.

                                The people who actually design and write code are already using something else while the parasites won't get off their behinds and bother to learn something new as they appear to live in the false hope that someone will magically craft a compiler for them that will take kiddie level code and turn it into blazingly fast 64 bit code. One can only hope they hold their breath waiting. I am appalled at the conduct of a section of the user base that were so selfish that they simply did not care how difficult it was for Vivian Zale after Bob died and just kept putting in the boot to the detriment of the company.

                                I hope Adam Drake can get it all up and going again but I doubt it will be built on what is left of this forum, its the decent and sensible folks who are the hope here, not the whiners. Have I offended anyone ? I hope so.
                                hutch at movsd dot com
                                The MASM Forum

                                www.masm32.com

                                Comment


                                • --
                                  Last edited by Donald Montaine; Yesterday, 07:52 PM.
                                  Donald Montaine

                                  Comment


                                  • Personally I don't think Bob Zale imagined a PowerBASIC without him running it. Bob wasn't hit by a bus and had the time to transition ownership properly and leave Vivian something other than grief..

                                    Comment


                                    • Herein lies the difference, those who are driven by direct sensible business decisions used something else for 64 bit development and if they were still finding a use for 32 bit and liked PB, they kept using it for that purpose. If a person/programmer/company that needed 64 bit did not have a path to get there, bigger fool them for not having enough business savvy to do so. Now for those who were stupid enough not to have a 64 bit migration path when they needed it, let them go bust for being so sloppy in their business planning. There is always another opportunity at the local hamburger shop or Walmart where they can demonstrate their business savvy while packing shelves or serving onions with the french fries.

                                      > I invest in (purchase products from) companies that put the customer first

                                      I don't, I buy products, not the social club and if its a good product, I will both use it and support it. What I don't need is for someone to hold my hot little hand guiding me through the pitfalls of creating software. The distinction between a "personal view" with the following patronising "bovine excrement" and the hard realities of commerce amounts to nothing more than putting the boot into a widow on their way out because of their lousy business planning. The reason why I don't care about offending those who did years of damage is that they did not care about doing years of damage. It seems rediculous that anyone would blame Bob Zale for having the audacity to pass way when they expected the support to go on forever.

                                      I certainly hope that Adam Drake can get PB up and going again as it had a good background in producing high quality compilers for the basic language and if it happens I will buy the product and use it, just like I still use the 32 bit version for some of the things I write. I don't need the extra hand holding that some expect but I will support them if they can get up up and going again.
                                      hutch at movsd dot com
                                      The MASM Forum

                                      www.masm32.com

                                      Comment


                                      • Hey Steve,
                                        You are now urging everyone else to learn a new language, it is akin to driving members away from PowerBasic. So why not you start a series
                                        of lessons to teach us how to program in MASM 64? We will be glad to migrate our applications once we learn the ropes!

                                        Comment


                                        • I agree with Steve. I think that it is the individual's prerogative to learn and use the tools and the obligation from the vendor is limited to the quality of the product. PB is extremely stable and there are workarounds for the few issues that crop up.

                                          For all my 32-bit needs, I use PB. In case, I need 64 bit or both 32 bit and 64 bit then I use a different product. For all cross platform (Linux, MAC, Web, Tablet, Mobile) needs, I use a completely different product. I develop Excel/Word Macros that are used in environments where compiled programs are not allowed. I find that this is natural for anyone in this industry. My > 25 years of programming experience taught me to adapt myself to the situation so that I don't become obsolete.

                                          If there is a new version of PB (32/64) I will buy them as I will find some engagement where I will use them. If it is not, this forum is still a good place to learn something new every time I visit it. After all, this is a peer-support programming forum and more than the APIs it is the approach to create the solution that matters.
                                          An&

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