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  • #21
    take a look here.

    Units that are in “Like New” condition. Minimal to no scuffs to the body of the unit. No scratches, dents, or other cosmetic damage to the item.
    I have bought many refurbished systems over the years. Mostly from TigerDirect which gets them from JoySystems. JoySystems is a major refurbishing outfit. There are only 16 refurbishers that Microsoft certifies. Maybe NewEgg gets them from JoySystems also.

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    • #22
      If no grade is provided I would assume it is a grade A.

      Especially business PCs like the one above which are refurbished, they tend to grade them from A to C. Grade A means the outside condition is very good. Grade B and C means there is more visible damage to the outside of the case (wear and tear).

      It is only a guess, but I think that possibly many of such PC's come from companies who lease PC's to large corporations. Likely they lease hundreds at a time maybe more. When the lease is up they take them back and the customer likely leases a new generation of PC's. The older ones likely are then refurbished and then resold with an upgrade to the latest version of Windows.

      Of course some such PC's take a beating so their condition may be rougher, so the Grades B and C are used for them. Many are used lightly and see little wear and they likely end up with a Grade A rating.

      Some such PC's will be refurbished by the manufacturer themselves (and usually say so), while others are refurbished from third part companies who do this in huge numbers. Joy Systems is an example of such. The Windows is full licensed. Microsoft has programs where refurbishers can buy Windows at a much lower cost. I assume they view it as an upgrade price (since the original PC already had a licensed copy of some version of Windows on it). You will likely see the stickers for the previous version of Windows on the case and possibly as well as one for the upgrade (not always though).

      I have good results with such PC's. Hewlett Packard sells/leases a ton of business PC's (so does Dell) to corporations , so there seems to be a glut of them on the refurbished market. Newegg.com has a lot of them for sale.

      Now with some wear on them some parts may not last as long, but usually the motherboards seem to last a good long time. I had to replace a power supply on mine after a few years, but it was cheap at $25. The beauty of these business PC's is they are easily upgraded and parts are readily available.
      Chris Boss
      Computer Workshop
      Developer of "EZGUI"
      http://cwsof.com
      http://twitter.com/EZGUIProGuy

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      • #23
        One more thing. While I would assume most if not all refurbished PC sold by major outlets are from authorized refurbishers, I do tend like to see it noted on the sales page of such. A Microsoft Authorized Refurbisher will help make sure that the Windows is legally licensed.

        The one I got was refurbished by Joy Systems.

        Now you can also check out the websites of the actual manufacturers for refurbished PC's. Dell is a good one. I bought a refurbished Dell PC directly from Dell, so you know you what you are getting. Some manufacturers though may sell some refurbished PC's with only the original version of Windows on them, rather than the latest version. Make sure the version is what you want.
        Chris Boss
        Computer Workshop
        Developer of "EZGUI"
        http://cwsof.com
        http://twitter.com/EZGUIProGuy

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        • #24
          Be careful when comparing the CPU benchmarks.

          The headline figure assumes your code can utilise all the cores on the CPU, which isn't usually the case.

          You need to pay attention to the "single thread" rating which is a more realistic indicator of how the computer will feel in every day use.

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          • #25
            Good point Paul !

            When comparing my CPU with Gary's and also that refurbished PC with a really good CPU, the single thread performance is surprising. My CPU is a dual core, while the others are 4 core.

            Here are the specs:

            Core I7-860 Rated: 5026 (Gary)

            Core I5-3470 Rated: 6722 (refurb PC)

            Core I3-4170 Rated: 5191 (Chris)


            Now compare the single thread rating for each:

            Core I7-860 Rated: 1236 (Gary)

            Core I5-3470 Rated: 1915 (refurb PC)

            Core I3-4170 Rated: 2129 (Chris)

            My PC CPU is a Core I3 and it had a better overall rating than Gary's Core I7,

            My PC CPU is a Core I3 and it had the highest Single Thread performance rating beating both the Core I7 and Core I5 above.

            Now my CPU is only a dual core, so doesn't benefit from the extra cores, so when running multiple apps at the same time it is not as good. But for a single running app, not bad I guess.



            Now let me add in Georges: Core I9-9920x

            While rated at 25223 overall, notice the single thread rating:

            Note: it is a 12 core CPU

            2511

            Not awful much more than my CPU's Single thread rating.

            Now I would guess apps which run multiple threads in the app would really benefit from such a CPU. Not sure how many threads a typical high end graphic program would run. If it uses a significant number of threads then the Core I9-9920x would really fly !



            Chris Boss
            Computer Workshop
            Developer of "EZGUI"
            http://cwsof.com
            http://twitter.com/EZGUIProGuy

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            • #26
              or running multiple VMs simultaneously :-)
              <b>George W. Bleck</b>
              <img src='http://www.blecktech.com/myemail.gif'>

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              • #27
                Originally posted by Paul Dixon View Post
                Be careful when comparing the CPU benchmarks.

                The headline figure assumes your code can utilise all the cores on the CPU, which isn't usually the case.

                You need to pay attention to the "single thread" rating which is a more realistic indicator of how the computer will feel in every day use.
                Exactly. In that regards, an i7-8700 (a $300 CPU) beats Goerge's I9-9920x...
                www.pluribasic.com

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                • #28
                  I don't know what speed the one Gary has but the i7 860 I have is a 2.8 gig and it is no slouch. Probably the only thing slowing it down is the Win7 64 interface but the grunt end of it is just fine. The socket 2011 Haswell E/EP that I use as my Win10 box mainly lives in Noddy land at about 1.2 gig until it gets under load and it peaks at 3.3 gig and while it is fast enough to do most things, especially multi-thread work, its single thread performance is OK but nothing exciting. On some things its really fast but on others its very ordinary, different processors used silicon in different ways, PIV hardware was pretty slow on SSE but later hardware was much faster

                  The gaming guys are a reasonable indicator of performance, they don't want 64 cores, they want 2 or 4 very fast ones. As far as overclockers go, the i7 860 was much loved by the gaming/overclocker brigade as it could be overclocked easily.
                  hutch at movsd dot com
                  The MASM Forum

                  www.masm32.com

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                  • #29
                    You are correct Steve. If i remember correctly, the i7-860 had a feature that the i7-920 didn't have... it is highly overclockable.I think it can go from 2.8ghz up to 3.6ghz.
                    www.pluribasic.com

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