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Why the Internet of Things ?

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  • David Clarke
    replied
    I just want a stove that resets its own clock!

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  • Larry Charlton
    replied
    http://particle.io has a fun little device. You can get wifi or cellular versions.

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  • Neil Croft
    replied
    The IoT is a security nightmare but just look where it's going. Already I can turn my heating on or off when I'm not at home. If I can then a suitably informed miscreant can. Hopefully worst case would be to heat my house up and raise my gas bill. But now people are getting things like Google Home Mini which has already been caught listening in, and Hive View cameras and the like. As more and more things get connected, it becomes easier and easier to draw a picture of someone's lifestyle from the data generated. George Orwell might have been onto something when he said Big Brother was watching you. The difference is with Google and Apple et al, we're inviting them in to watch.

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  • Dean Gwilliam
    replied
    I couldn't agree more.
    I got food poisioning from someone else's microwave 'cos I didn't understand the fancy interface.

    My big thing is washing machines refusing to cycle just because some superfluous sensor doesn't like the powder to water mix, size of the load etc...ridiculous.
    I generally go for the simplest things because usually there's less moving parts to go wrong and I have a better chance of fixing them myself.
    Another big thing is boilers...Years ago they used to last 50 years or so.....Now your luck if they last 5, in spite of their fancy electronics and interfaces.
    I have found a solution to the latter, though http://www.dowlingstoves.com/
    These things are hand built out of very heavy plate with no elaborate inner flow-related structures.
    That's because the shape does all the work and they're so strongly built that nothing really ever needs replacing. Fantastic.
    One of these was in a house on Grand Designs.

    As a last rant....my last company car was a shiny new Mercedes E320 common rail diesel. Really good motorway car but within 10 months it'd been in the garage twice with issues related to stability control and some other computer related luxury. For years afterwards I ran PROPER Skoda engined cars and lament VW's decision to end this long line of very simple, VERY TOUGH pushrod engines. I used to buy them with head gasket problems for nothing at about 60K miles, replace the gaskets and run them to about 130K miles. The only special equipment needed other than taking the head for skimming (£20 at the local one-man band engineer's....another thing that's disappearing) was a cardboard box to push the pushrods through to keep their relative positions. Rubber bands on plastic wheels now drive my cars' cams because chains cost more than the cars, to replace. On one occasion I just caught one of the said plastic wheels,in a Ford Mondeo, before it collapsed. So much for progress.

    The most impressive thing I saw recently was an episode of Engine Addicts where Jimmy De Ville went to Warsaw and grafted an FSO Syrena engine into a snow machine. Now that's what I call an owner-friendly engine/car (7 moving parts and small enough to lift out easily). What was equally impressive was the Polish Syrena expert who tested each potential donor car's engine by repeatedly pulling on the fan belt to turn the engine over, checking the compression of each cylinder with each pull. That's not something you can do on most cars.

    Here's a brief excerpt and not a microprocessor in site.....I doubt they'd handle the cold.
    Perhaps we all need to move to Poland.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkLvRVq6MP4



    Not sexy but just goes to show...there's no real need to make people as dependent as they are on garages with the associated expense.
    You could have one of these out and fix it on your kitchen table .
    Attached Files
    Last edited by Dean Gwilliam; 21 Jan 2018, 12:09 PM.

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  • Kerry Farmer
    replied
    You are right Steve

    The difference between a $70 microwave oven and a $500 one is the complexity of the programs

    Which I never use!!!

    And one that connects to the internet is nonsense

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  • Steve Hutchesson
    replied
    I am much of the same view as Theo here, I don't want a smart refrigerator, I want a dumb one that keeps things cold. Governments (any) grasping for an every increasing level of control are dangerous and they serve interests that do not match the folks who elect them. Many politicians who have promised to respond to the interests of their own electorate but have ended up kiss the arse of big money like they usually do.

    One of the many things that irk me about Windows 10 64 bit is what they call telemetry which is a bullsh*t term for actively spying on you. There are a few toys that can turn most of it off but you simply cannot trust Microsoft or any other Internet company to protect your interests when they only serve their own. The never ending search for new and creative ways to suck more money out of you is the only thing they are interested in.

    As far as light bulbs, even with the new LED types that use far less power, there is no reason to add the IOT into them, like Apple with the old phones slowing them down, it would simply be a way to stop the bulb from working after a set time period. Over the last couple of years I did all of the bulbs in the house with Panasonic LED globes and they have a life expectancy of about 15 years. Many companies would not like this.

    Can you imagine a use for an IOT toaster when ordinary junky ones do the job just fine. One of my pet peeves is microwave ovens that now day all have touch pad controls rather than a couple of knobs on dials. Digital has its place but so does analogue and the first often does not work as well as the latter. Just as an example, I own a Lincoln wire feed welder that has a switch and 2 knobs, I have seen some of the similar sized ones that have a full panel of digital controls and they don't work any better but they sure are complicated.

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  • Theo Gottwald
    replied
    Its like with modern cars: The more parts are builtin (means the more complicated it is) the more will get broken and needs be replaced with expensive spare parts.
    As we see with Printers, the manufacturer does not more make so much money with the selling of the printer, he grabs your money when you buy the spare parts and the the new Ink.
    After all this is just a new way of getting the money out of your packet into the money of always hungry companies who need to produce every year more and more Percentage for their stock owners.
    Now they found out that all cars have chips inside that can be manipulated by the US Agencies so your car will crash in case they do not like you.
    Also what we see is that these IOT Devices get hacked and make themselves hacking attacks. "When your light bulb attacks your server".
    We produce completely unneccessary problems here. There is no need for a light bulb to be connected with the Internet, unlike if there is a microphone inside and somebody is interested to know what we are talking.

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  • Knuth Konrad
    replied
    That may be a language thing, but to me "primarly attacks" sounds/implies some intentionally selection/preference of certain OS' (2003 and XP). And that's not the case. It attacks a SMBv1 flaw. It just so happens that most systems with that flaw are indeed XP and 2003, as there was no patch availabe.

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  • Bob Scott
    replied
    OK, I think the word "primarily" makes the statement correct but indeed it may be misleading. But the NSA/MS exploit is good info.

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  • Knuth Konrad
    replied
    Originally posted by Bob Scott View Post
    This is way off subject but I had an interesting thought. With all the "Ransom Ware" attacks which primarily target Windows 2003 and Windows XP - I guess because they are no longer supported and any holes are never plugged. Wouldn't be interesting if Microsoft were the "Ransom Ware" source? With all the Outdated and/or ILLegal Windows copies in the World this would be a great sales tool. Not saying this is the case but it would be Smart!
    That statement is misleading: WannaCry uses a SMBv1 flaw as its attack vector. Any (Windows) system that's not patched is the "primarily target". Any system.

    And contrary to popular believe some sort of XP is still support by MS: Embedded XP, which is the OS used in many ATMs. Knowing that, one can "fool" Windows Update to still receive patches for Win XP. Here's how: https://www.ghacks.net/2014/05/24/ge...xp-april-2019/

    And if you really wanna dive into tinfoil hat territory, how's that: The exploit used by WannaCry seems to be taken from the ShadowBroker's leak of NSA tools. So the NSA was very well aware of that exploit ... and perhaps MS, too. But the NSA forced MS to keep that exploit open (until it becomes public knowledge), so that they can keep using their tools based on it.

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  • Bob Scott
    replied
    This is way off subject but I had an interesting thought. With all the "Ransom Ware" attacks which primarily target Windows 2003 and Windows XP - I guess because they are no longer supported and any holes are never plugged. Wouldn't be interesting if Microsoft were the "Ransom Ware" source? With all the Outdated and/or ILLegal Windows copies in the World this would be a great sales tool. Not saying this is the case but it would be Smart!

    Leave a comment:


  • Dale Yarker
    replied
    Are ISPs going to give Internet service for free? We go to Google, FB, etc voluntarily, and they keep their lights on by selling information and ads. We may select an ISP volunarily, BUT they bill us for the service. They are already paid. Selling our names and habits is therefore robbery. The FCC was right, and the elected officials just want money for re-election.

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  • Knuth Konrad
    replied
    Given the current U.S. legilation, I wouldn't worry so much about Google and FB. U.S. citizens should be more worried about their ISPs, to which the alloawnce has been granted to sell a user's browsing/access history. By the very nature of this, the ISP by far knows way more of your browsing habits than any of the "Googles". Add Deep Packet Inspection to the picture, and that becomes even more scary.

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  • Jim Fritts
    replied
    Hmm,
    Thanks Kerry. I guess I should revise my statement in light of today's news. My comments were directed at the DDOS a few months ago and whether there would be a problem obtaining a dumb device to cook my toast in the future.

    From the news... Google, Facebook, and others are selling our data to the highest bidder. That's a personal security issue in itself.
    IOT devices will make most of our data public if the selling trend continues. I tend to think of my data as useless; however, with all the Baby boomers reaching retirement their data may be pushing up new markets. Data mining could be very lucrative in the future.

    The machines that interact with us on a daily basis will need to know something about us. Their existence depends on it. This is a shout out to my personal favorite. "WATSON" if you are listening... Thank you so much bro for all your help. In the future.


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  • Kerry Farmer
    replied
    Originally posted by Jim Fritts View Post
    1)

    The problem is generally not the device or the support chain that makes use of the data reported by the device. The problem is the end user's lack of attention to detail about security protocols.
    Jim

    You are exactly right, of course

    But forgive me, I think that is a techo's answer.

    Does the ordinary non-techo understand or appreciate that?

    It is the same as me - I have clicked 'yes' to the fine print many times in the last year on my screen but I have never read them - and so have you????

    On a slightly different tack, we in NZ have just increased the way that the banks give police our banking information - all good anti-terrorist stuff. But it raises the matter that the police are monitoring my spending even when they do not suspect me of anything - and that is quite a lot more than what they used to do. They used to start monitoring me only after they suspected me - which is fine. I suspect that this monitoring is happening all over the world and indeed there is some suggestion that the Americans 'asked' us to do it. But am I allowed to say in the IOT, that my bank has become a 'thing' for the purpose?

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  • Jim Fritts
    replied
    1) No need to worry if a dumb device will be available in the future.
    2) If the device is barred from gaining connection to the internet it is essentially a dumbed down device.
    3) If said device does not perform a dedicated function as a standalone dumbed down device it will not survive in the marketplace.
    EX: Try using an Amazon Echo without internet connection.

    The problem is generally not the device or the support chain that makes use of the data reported by the device. The problem is the end user's lack of attention to detail about security protocols.
    Last edited by Jim Fritts; 27 Mar 2017, 05:36 PM.

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  • Thomas Tierney
    replied
    dish washers that sense the level of dirt on a plate and washes accordingly, a tv that can connect to Netflix via Wi-Fi... these are considered smart devices as well... and I don't think they are going anywhere.. in a couple of years you probably won't be able to by an appliance or tv without a computer inside of it.. here are some problems you can run into - the two TV's we analyzed their MB found that the core OS used a Linux variation OS, dependent upon old api's that had been banned for cause... and, these devices were also used in a global event a few months ago where Wireless TV's, Microwaves, refrigerators were used to perform a DDOS attack against a large DNS service on the east coast... it lasted well over a day and couldn't get any work done.. but hey... it's a grand new world we live in

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  • Knuth Konrad
    replied
    If you are not a fan of this monitoring madness, have a fridge that is truly dumb
    As of today: no problem at all (to just stay away from 'smart' fridges). *But* - will there still be 'dumb' fridges available in the future?

    I'm looking at i.e. at smartphones. I never ever took a picture with any cell phone I own(ed), smart or not. Therefore I would prefer a smartphone without a camera. I do like the "smart" part, though. I've looked around for smartphones without a camera ... found three suppliers and the phones were s ..... ubpar, to say the least. I wouldn't mind the camera at all - I just don't use it, but the camera contributes significantly to the price of a smartphone.

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  • Steve Hutchesson
    replied
    Can you think of how important it is for your refrigerator to accurately monitor the temperature of its content so it can report any variations to your smartphone ? Then of course your microwave can sense temperature gradients in what you warmed up for breakfast while reporting this to your medical records so that insurers can accurately evaluate your dietary habits and charge you accordingly. Then of course your TV set can use facial recognition to test your level of interest in both the programs you can watch and your response to advertising so that the advertising can better fit what you should be interested in and the ratings for television programs can be determined automatically to fix the advertisers price for the air time they hire.

    If you are not a fan of this monitoring madness, have a fridge that is truly dumb and only keeps its contents cold, if microwave ovens start to get "smart", set up a fuel stove and burn whatever rubbish you can find to cook with as it will still produce less pollution than the manufacturing process of what you have replaced, retire your smartphone to the recyclers, keep your PC for writing software and go and join the real analogue world that has sights, sounds, smells and human beings.

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  • Kerry Farmer
    replied
    Originally posted by Knuth Konrad View Post

    You might be joking there, but looking at how things evolved in the past, I wouldn't be too surprised if all the data accumulated that way might sooner or later have an impact on your wallet. In your joking doctor example: the health insurance tariff..
    You are absolutely right

    I get concerned when people seem to know about things about me and I am not sure where they got it from. In NZ you sign a form which says that other medical providers can access your records (you do not have to sign) but it is clearly in your advantage to sign. But we need to manage this trend


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