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  • PB 3.5 in WIN2K/Prof box question

    Was asked to try my suite in a WIN2K/Pro box today. I figured out
    how to get a DOS command prompt on the desktop to use for a manual
    install OK. Install finished fine .. and, surprise! Btrieve's
    workstation loader at least loaded, leaving 559K free in lower
    memory courtesy of some other utilitiesl I loaded. The MEM command
    doesn't 'exist' as such .. and it's obvious they'd rather not have
    you in a DOS window out there alone!

    But .. no EMS!

    A fist full of utility programs and such that do not use it seem to
    run OK, and I'm aware of the, I think, need to somehow enable the
    WIN (NT) system to 'see' the printer via some kind of a pre-load.

    But ..

    Err .. what do we do for EMS on a 'DOS BOX' on a WIN2K/Pro box for
    such things needed for PB 3.5 for DOS that are gluttons for upper
    memory?

    How do you enable EMS in this creature, or is it even possible?


    ------------------
    Mike Luther
    [email protected]
    Mike Luther
    [email protected]

  • #2
    Yes, it's 100% possible - I have EMS on my DOS box under Win2k!

    Check the Properties of the Shortcut for the DOS box, and if necessary, edit AUTOEXEC.NT and CONFIG.NT in the WINNT\SYSTEM32 directory.


    ------------------
    Lance
    PowerBASIC Support
    mailto:[email protected][email protected]</A>
    Lance
    mailto:[email protected]

    Comment


    • #3
      Thank you Lance.

      ------------------
      Mike Luther
      [email protected]
      Mike Luther
      [email protected]

      Comment


      • #4
        Lance,

        I was unable to find a memory tab in the properties of the command prompt
        and I couldn't find the EMS driver program to put in the "config.nt" either...

        Could you describe in some more details how you got EMS in your command prompt?

        Thanks,

        ------------------
        Sebastian Groeneveld
        mailto:[email protected][email protected]</A>
        Sebastian Groeneveld
        mailto:[email protected][email protected]</A>

        Comment


        • #5
          Create a shortcut to a DOS application, then right-click the shortcut and select Properties. Adjust the EMS settings on the Memory tab.

          The technique has not really changed since Win95 was introduced.

          ------------------
          Lance
          PowerBASIC Support
          mailto:[email protected][email protected]</A>
          Lance
          mailto:[email protected]

          Comment


          • #6
            Lance

            This is how this request got started! Like the other poster claims,
            this 'version' or whatever in two different boxes that are at this
            same client, simply have no such tab at all in the properties box!

            I'd be farther along with this, but as of now, my entire research
            deal into it and with the information you so kindly furnished me is
            totally on hold. Post WN32/Nimda.A (b) (c) and so on, both boxes
            are totally still closed to me where AVG thinks all my executables
            are viruses.. gloom.

            To date Grisoft has never answered either my Email to the individual
            that was presented for support questions, nor as a resend to a
            generic address of [email protected]

            As well, a second client has hit the same problem with EMS and DOS
            BOX questions on the new XP. In this case the first of a number of
            boxes there with XP are still x86 CPU boxes and, per what is told
            to me still have the DOS BOX operation on them. I've now been told
            by two different sources that such operations don't even exist any
            longer in XP with non-x86 CPU's (64 bit), let alone EMS on them.

            As an interesting maybe not so sideline comment here, it's just very
            recently been announced that an outfit called CONNECTIX in the first
            quarter will offer Win-xx cross-platform connectivity for WIN-xx
            running under OS/2:

            http://www.connectix.com/

            So rumored, that might include running OS/2 from WIN or LINUX boxes.

            GDRFC!

            VMWare almost released this same tool about a year ago. Though not
            well known and not cheap, other cross-platform tools do exist to
            go back aand forth between platforms on a given platform. I never
            thought I would *HAVE* to have them in the future. But as Intel
            now races to abandon all floppy drives, and remove all serial port
            connections from all mother boards starting in 2002, my entire focus
            on the "World of Tomorrow", keeps going back to the 1960's in the
            broadcast stations where I engineered! The echo of old Garner
            Ted Armstrong sure keeps filtering out of the corners of my memory!

            I keep wondering if I have a personal EMS memeory tab and some day
            it will be gone from the 'properties tab' and I won't have enough
            upper memory to keep track of all this stuff from one month to the
            next! Or -- if it will get wiped out by a mental virus!!



            I'll post back here when we find out more!


            ------------------
            Mike Luther
            [email protected]
            Mike Luther
            [email protected]

            Comment


            • #7
              this 'version' or whatever in two different boxes that are at this
              same client, simply have no such tab at all in the properties box!
              Did you create a shortcut to the program, as Lance suggested? I have never seen a case where a shortcut to a DOS program was missing a Memory tab in the Properties.

              Another approach is to set global defaults for DOS boxes by editing the CONFIG.NT file in your \winnt\system32 directory. Make a backup of any existing file first. You'd have lines something like this:

              dos=high, umb
              device=%SystemRoot%\system32\himem.sys
              emm = RAM

              such operations don't even exist any longer in XP with non-x86 CPU's (64 bit), let alone EMS on them.
              64-bit XP is foreign territory. You may need to license a DOS emulator to run your apps in that case.


              ------------------
              Tom Hanlin
              PowerBASIC Staff

              Comment


              • #8
                Yes, Tom..

                Did you create a shortcut to the program, as Lance suggested? I
                have never seen a case where a shortcut to a DOS program was
                missing a Memory tab in the Properties.
                that was done. Further, his son is a MS/CNE, or whatever, was a senior
                systems specialist for Boeing prior to his decision to take a job with
                one of the larger phone companies and forming his own family oriented
                IP on the side. He'd never seen this either. Is totally confused,
                scratching his head. But they are totally covered up in Nimda mess,
                at this point. He has no time to even think about this at the moment.

                As well I've lost more time in three weeks doing research on all this
                for the fluke that we found in OS/2 LAN operations and proof up than
                for network maintenance operations than I have total in the last
                four solid years of OS/2 ... gloom.

                I'm going to bundle up Lance's messages, as well as what Doug Watkins
                the ex-Boeing Admin has found, and forward that all to Bob Starkweather
                down in Houston to try to get it enabled on XP which they have up
                for testing there. When I find the answers as we see it, I'll post
                what I can bring back to the table.

                Most likely there is some confoundedly simple explanation to it all.
                That's almost always the case, isn't it? (!)

                There is *NOTHING* that you folks or Lance is doing wrong or not
                trying to help solve.

                Your remainder suggestion efforts are in line with what's been said
                elsewhere that didn't work either, per Doug at the client site.

                What you posted as:

                64-bit XP is foreign territory. You may need to license a DOS
                emulator to run your apps in that case.
                is precisely why I posted the URL for Connectix... I was sincerely
                trying to be helpfully suggestive (has a nice ring to it, at any
                rate, chuckle), in doing so.

                I've got this stinking little feeling that we're all going to have
                to be a bit more objective in the programming future! GDRFC again!


                ------------------
                Mike Luther
                [email protected]
                Mike Luther
                [email protected]

                Comment


                • #9
                  Are you by any chance using a batch file to launch your program?

                  Windows 2000 thinks that it is smarter than the user, and assumes
                  it knows what to do with batch files, so it disables the Memory tab
                  (also the Misc and Program tabs)


                  ------------------
                  Neil Bertz
                  [email protected]
                  PowerBASIC Staff

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Ye ghads Neil!

                    ROTF (not) L

                    Are you by any chance using a batch file to launch your program?

                    Windows 2000 thinks that it is smarter than the user, and assumes
                    it knows what to do with batch files, so it disables the Memory tab
                    (also the Misc and Program tabs)
                    Yep. But in that I wasn't there when this was 'set up', and don't
                    claim to know a thing about WIN-whatever, grin, of course I don't
                    know this!

                    I'm not sure that it was 'set up' this way. I'll have to ask. Not
                    knowing how the drop to the Desktop works in WIN, I know a couple of
                    ways to make things appear on a Desktop .. but in that infernal pest
                    OS/2 .. grin.

                    I can copy another program's Icon, change the name and path, and voila,
                    we are in motion. OS/2 will automatically take care of all the nitty
                    gritty about re-working the OS2.INI files, all the desktop, the loader
                    deals and everything else. No fuss, no muss. I can also create a
                    new program folder and do much the same, with the same results. I
                    can also do it the preferred way. That means I pick out from a
                    complete list of found possibilities, a program by name from a point
                    and click list of all such, or a batch file, or a command file. The
                    entire system is smart enough then to keep all but the worst
                    mannered programs out of trouble. What few glitches usually remain
                    can be cleaned up by hand in session settings for the WIN and DOS
                    varmints.

                    Now .. if this is 'the' problem, and likely it is, how do we get
                    WIN 2k educated?

                    Curious mind wants to know!



                    BTW .. thanks for your perspective!!!



                    ------------------
                    Mike Luther
                    [email protected]
                    Mike Luther
                    [email protected]

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Did you create a shortcut to the program, as Lance suggested? I
                      have never seen a case where a shortcut to a DOS program was
                      missing a Memory tab in the Properties.
                      Right, there you have it! That's what I was doing wrong...
                      The properties of my shortcut to CMD.EXE didn't have a memory tab because CMD.EXE is
                      a 32-bit windows executable! Now I use \WinNT\System32\COMMAND.COM and I found the
                      memory tab there...

                      So when I need EMS, I simply launch COMMAND.COM (with EMS) and run 4NT.EXE or CMD.EXE
                      from there, which gives me a nice environment with EMS

                      Thanks,

                      ------------------
                      Sebastian Groeneveld
                      mailto:[email protected][email protected]</A>
                      Sebastian Groeneveld
                      mailto:[email protected][email protected]</A>

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        You can also fool windows by creating a shortcut
                        to one application and changing the CMD Line
                        (say you were using a batch file to launch an EXE)
                        Drag the EXE to your desktop to create the shortcut, adjust your
                        memory settings, etc - click on the program tab and change the
                        cmd line and working directory to match your BAT file.

                        ------------------
                        Neil Bertz
                        [email protected]
                        PowerBASIC Staff

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I have just upgraded to W2k.I have two problems.
                          1) I am editing the congig.nt file and I cannot
                          get the correct value in the emm line for basesegment.
                          The file says the default is 0x4000, but when I enter
                          this in the line it complains about incorrect value.
                          Can someone please give me the exact line I need to put
                          in here to get max dos mem for PB
                          At the moment I can get a maximum of 176kb for the "Main memory"
                          in the compile/get info in PB,whereas in my pure DOS partition
                          I can get 224k .I note that WINNT/2K won't allow the LH command
                          before the PB, to force it high.
                          Is there any other way to do this in W2K?
                          2) Also I am getting some very strange colours in the PB ide.
                          Even full screen the Hiyellow white etc are coming out dark.
                          Blue1 is OK tho!! Tried resetting colour with PBinstall,didn't work.
                          If I go to debug/refresh display it fixes it, but when I compile
                          something it goes back to dark cols.
                          Any ideas on how to fix this? Other PB35 compiled programs are
                          running with correct colors on same system!
                          Thanks
                          Eric in London UK.

                          ------------------

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Win2K emulates MSDOS 5.0 which does not support loadhigh.

                            Is there any reason to use the EMM option in CONFIG.NT? You can set up EMS and XMS with a shortcut.

                            Also, the "trick" to maximize memory is to disable all of the options in the AUTOEXEC.NT file which costs you DPMI, network redirector and CDROM support for your DOS apps (reenable them when you need to test code that rely on these services), etc.

                            This way, I get 227392 bytes free when the IDE is loaded (655360 bytes at the actual DOS prompt).

                            Here are my files:
                            config.nt
                            dos=high, umb
                            device=%SystemRoot%\system32\himem.sys
                            files=40

                            autoexec.nt
                            path=G:\PB35;%path%;C:\bats;

                            Now, create a shortcut to PB.EXE (or COMMAND.COM), and then right-click, choose Memory and set your EMS and XMS settings.

                            I use 16Mb for EMS and 4Mb for XMS.

                            Finally, edit the shortcut to point to CMD.EXE in the cmdline field. On my system, this is "C:\WINNT5\system32\cmd.exe"

                            I hope this helps!


                            ------------------
                            Lance
                            PowerBASIC Support
                            mailto:[email protected][email protected]</A>
                            Lance
                            mailto:[email protected]

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Lance .Thanks for the reply. I spent several hours fiddling with
                              the memory settings and used the same autoexec & config.nt as you.
                              If you make a shortcut to command or change the cmdline to cmd.exe
                              then of course it goes to a command box,but then loading the ide
                              from there the maximum is still 160(655360 at the actual dos prompt)
                              Changes made to ems & xms in the mem tab of the properties of
                              the shortcut do get refelected in the ide, but it doesn't seem to
                              change the main memory. Even if I reduce this in the shortcut it
                              still seems to default back to auto after use!!
                              I can get get 176 by adding this line to config.nt
                              emm = a=2 RAM ,but as I said I can't get the setting for B the
                              base segment to work .
                              I note that Microsoft say there is a bug in here somewhere
                              See Knowledge base ID Q301427. I don't know if that's relevant.
                              Could you please also answer Q 2 about the colour/color problem?
                              Eric


                              ------------------

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Hmmm... I can't say I've seen the problem with the colors in any manner like this, and I use PB/DOS and Win2K on a daily basis.

                                The only color related problems I am aware of is when the DOS program directly reprograms the VGA palette (using INT calls).

                                In windowed (DOS-box) mode, the VGA palette reprogramming is not respected by Windows - the DOS program has to be in full-screen mode to see the effect.

                                The strange aspect here is that you say that <U>just</U> compiling (not running) the app is enough to do it?

                                That said, I'd try creating a new shortcut for the DOS app and see if that has any effect.

                                Has anyone else here ever seen this effect?

                                ------------------
                                Lance
                                PowerBASIC Support
                                mailto:[email protected][email protected]</A>
                                Lance
                                mailto:[email protected]

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  To clarify . The color problem is only with the pb ide in
                                  full screen mode. All other progs, including PBinst,Edit,and
                                  executables compiled with PBide appear in correct color.
                                  Why does it fix it with debug/refresh screen?
                                  Eric


                                  ------------------

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    I get funkty colors in the IDE under Win2k as well... granted it is
                                    a harmless side effect, it is noticeable...

                                    As for fixing the batch file problem, try PC Magazine'e
                                    batch file compiler....it makes your batch file into a binary
                                    file.

                                    The author is Douglas Boiling, and the program is called Bat2exec

                                    Simtel has it at: http://www.simtel.net/pub/pd/48766.html

                                    That ought to fix your problem....



                                    ------------------
                                    Amos
                                    DosOS.com
                                    mailto:[email protected][email protected]</A>

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      What batch file problem are you referring to here?

                                      ------------------
                                      Lance
                                      PowerBASIC Support
                                      mailto:[email protected][email protected]</A>
                                      Lance
                                      mailto:[email protected]

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        I have fixed the color problem by compiling this to an exe, then
                                        running it just before PB.
                                        FOR count% = 0 TO 5
                                        PALETTE count%,count%
                                        NEXT count%
                                        FOR count5 = 8 TO 15
                                        PALETTE count%,(count%+48)
                                        NEXT count%
                                        PALETTE 7,7
                                        PALETTE 6,20

                                        This restores the palette to its original settings, but I am not
                                        quite sure why this works.
                                        Any ideas?
                                        I am still left with the memory problem which I would be grateful
                                        for help. Otherwise I 'm going to have to put a dos partition in.
                                        Eric



                                        ------------------

                                        Comment

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