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  • OOP, you got it all wrong...

    I have the answer to make both world happy...

    As the author of PBSEdit, the idea of implementing an IDE to PB
    is very simple. Leave PB the way it is and build an external IDE
    which will convert IDE commands to current PB code. So, we get
    an IDE compiler and a PB compiler. See what I mean? This way, low
    level programmers don't need to look at an IDE, OOP people can
    take advantage of the IDE. PBSEdit is under construction and looks
    very much like the Delphi IDE. When you code OOP in the IDE, the
    codes will be translated to PB code. Say...

    Form1.Button1.Caption = "Cancel"

    will be converted to...

    Button1Caption = "Cancel"
    SendMessage hButton1, %WM_SETTEXT, 0, STRPTR(Button1Caption)

    ..by the IDE before the PB compiler makes the EXE.

    So in other words, don't change PB, create a stand alone IDE
    that works with PB. This way, we'll all be happy

    -Michael-

  • #2
    Sounds Really interesting ...

    Where can I read about/get more information on PBSEdit?

    Regards,

    Andrew Peskin
    [email protected]

    ------------------

    Comment


    • #3
      Michael,

      The idea you have sounds like a very interesting one. I agree with the
      view that you can have a user friendly interface and some low level grunt
      to make the output fast and small. I don't believe that you can only have
      one or the other.

      I would be interested to see what you had in mind for the "object"
      component of this code/IDE design. The example Form1.Button1.Caption =
      "Cancel" is a straight transformation to procedural code which is minimum
      in size and fast.

      We had some very good ideas posted by some of the members on low level OOP
      design that was aimed at small & fast code and I think the idea you have
      is one with a lot of potential. Please let us know what you consider is
      worthwhile as the PowerBASIC staff kep a good eye on what happens in the
      forum.

      Regards,

      [email protected]

      ------------------
      hutch at movsd dot com
      The MASM Forum

      www.masm32.com

      Comment


      • #4
        You can see/download PBSEdit from http://pbsedit.freeservers.com

        Steve,

        I also believe that having both is ideal, without the need to
        make PBDLL another VB, requiring a 2MB DLL, or like Delphi,
        having to work in an IDE environment. That's why I started PBSEdit.

        The "transformation" is also ideal for PB. It doesn't require any
        modifications to the PBDLL compiler, and again, that's what
        PBSEdit is for.

        My goals are...

        1) PBSEdit will implement new keywords which PB lacks.
        For example, the WITH keyword, used like this...

        WITH CustRec
        Name = "Mike"
        Phone = "987-6543"
        Age = "30"
        END WITH

        ..is much better than this...

        CustRec.Name = "Mike"
        CustRec.Phone = "987-6543"
        CustRec.Age = "30"

        ...especially when working on structured data files.

        2) A form designer, which includes OCX. PBSEdit will write all
        the low level PB codes neccessary to handle all the forms and
        controls. This also includes all events such as OnMouseOver,
        OnClick etc.

        3) PBSEdit will have a code/form editor similar to that of VB and Delphi.

        4) PBSEdit will not generate any DLLs to be included with the EXE.
        That is, PBSEdit will ONLY translate new keywords and OOP to the
        native PB syntax before running the PB compiler and make the EXE.
        This includes all low level codes for creating all forms and
        controls, event etc.

        5) It'll sell for only $2,995.95 - JUST KIDDING

        I'm not sure yet, but I do not plan on making it free. It's a
        very sophisticated program and requires allot of tricks and time,
        programming expertise etc. So, the making of PBSEdit will make
        me poor and I'll need to provide support and fix bugs. But
        until then, it's not for sell, it's under development.

        I think that PBSEdit and PBDLL would be an excellent package.

        -Michael-

        Comment


        • #5
          Michael,

          I'd like to see your application, but I've been unable to download it,
          I keep getting errors from the server (maybe is too busy), if you
          don't mind, would you please email it to mailto:[email protected][email protected]</A>

          Thanks

          ------------------
          Ivan Iraola
          Ivan

          Uncle Droid (Android Apps)

          Comment


          • #6
            Ok, I just did. I'm in the process of getting my own web site.
            I did, but got all my servers stolen by my employees while on
            a trip. They totally put me out of business. I had web hosting
            and 5 products I was selling. SoftByteLabs.com must ring a bell
            to the guys at PB

            -Michael-

            Comment


            • #7
              Thanks for the file Mike.

              ------------------
              Ivan Iraola
              Ivan

              Uncle Droid (Android Apps)

              Comment


              • #8
                Michael,

                Sorry to hear about the loss of the servers but this one may be
                the comeback trail for you. I got the download second try and it
                is starting to shape up well. I thought the form editor was starting
                to look good.

                Regards,

                [email protected]

                ------------------
                hutch at movsd dot com
                The MASM Forum

                www.masm32.com

                Comment


                • #9
                  Thank you Steve. I'm glad you like it. I hope PBSEdit will be
                  the killer app companion of PBDLL and put me back on my feet so
                  that I can improve more and more on the IDE/OOP project.

                  Regards,
                  Michael

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Michael,

                    I have downloaded the App, and it looks great. I can't
                    wait to see what else you have in store for it.

                    When you get the code generation going, I think it will
                    be fantastic.

                    Regards

                    Andrew

                    ------------------
                    --------------
                    andrew dot lindsay at westnet dot com dot au

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Thanks Andrew. I hope there will be enough PB users that will
                      want it to make it worth while to develop. It's time consuming
                      since the whole thing is written using the Windows API only.

                      Regards,
                      Michael

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Michael,
                        I have a copy of PBSEdit that I downloaded from (?) dated March 3,2000.
                        The file sizes of the one you link to here and the one I already have are
                        identical. Are they the same application??

                        James


                        ------------------

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Michael;

                          Would you be interested in supporting the "Open Source Power AddOns"
                          specification (wizards) I am working on ?

                          Kev Peel is already in the process of adding it to his PowerIDE
                          and we hope that PowerBasic may jump on the bandwagon and use it
                          when it is finished. The basic interface between the IDE and the
                          AddOns is already developed and "very" easy to impliment in an IDE.

                          The specs for PowerAddOns that I am designing is both "Open Source"
                          and free for any IDE or Wizard developer to use. By making it free
                          to all, I hope it will catch on and become a standard for AddOns
                          (Wizards) for all PB IDEs !

                          My Visual Designers will be converted to AddOn format so they will
                          easily integrate into the IDE.

                          Your IDE looks very interesting and the "pre-processing" technique
                          sounds very useful.


                          ------------------
                          Chris Boss
                          Computer Workshop
                          Developer of "EZGUI"
                          http://cwsof.com
                          http://twitter.com/EZGUIProGuy

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Michael, I think what you're doing is fine, specially the
                            generation of code for the user interface components. But as
                            for the OOP stuff, I hope that a future version of PB or
                            ObjectBASIC (wishful thinking im beginning to think) makes what
                            you're doing unnecessary. I dont want to discourage you, I
                            just want to make my feelings known that such a solution for
                            OOP is not an acceptable one to me.

                            Steve made the comment:
                            "Please let us know what you consider is worthwhile as the
                            PowerBASIC staff kep a good eye on what happens in the
                            forum."

                            To which I must re-itterate my position that I sincerely hope
                            PB does not need to gather ideas from users (especially considering
                            the limited viewpoints -by virtue of the limited number of people
                            who have been responding- expressed on this BBS) on how to
                            implement OO or even whether to implement it at all in hopes that
                            someone else creates an IDE which can simulate the coding
                            experience for the user. If PB _wants_ this type of information,
                            they should post an article to this BBS stating exactly what
                            type of information/feedback they want/need at the least.

                            -Mike


                            ------------------

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Michael,
                              I would like to see your PBSEdit product, however, I get an
                              authentication required dialog when I try to download it from
                              your website. Can you please send me a copy to mailto:[email protected][email protected]</A> .

                              Thanks,
                              Chris Roebuck

                              ------------------


                              [This message has been edited by Chris Roebuck (edited October 02, 2000).]

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                We are always interested in hearing suggestions. We are not inclined
                                to demand that people make specific kinds of suggestions.

                                ------------------
                                Tom Hanlin
                                PowerBASIC Staff

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  James,

                                  Yes it is the same app. If you remember me from SoftByte Labs,
                                  I posted to the news group about PBSEdit and you downloaded
                                  it from my web site, http://SoftByteLabs.com/PBSEdit/ which no
                                  longer exist. I had to leave real fast on a family emergency,
                                  and like an idiot, trusted my manager to take care of business
                                  and of my house. Well, that was the biggest mistake I've ever
                                  did in my life. They completely emptied my house, and then my
                                  office with all the 12 servers I had. They formatted all the HD
                                  and sold the servers. So now I'm out of business. I tell you
                                  how much backups are important. My source codes to all my apps
                                  is all I have left.

                                  -Michael-

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    To: Mike Joseph

                                    I think you have the wrong idea Mike. The point that everyone
                                    have been making all along on OOP was, they don't want PB to be
                                    another VB, end of the line. Even if the guys at PB makes an IDE,
                                    they will have to make it stand alone, and another product, like
                                    PowerGen. Everyone wanted PowerGen, but it's primitive, better
                                    make an IDE instead.

                                    You know what PB is all about right? Now, lets suppose the guys
                                    at PB makes an IDE. They'll need more time, programmers, tech etc.
                                    Therefor, the price will increase, less sales. Another VB born.

                                    Let the third parties make attachments to PB, and whoever wants
                                    them can purchase them. Unless PB wants to compete with VB and
                                    Delphi, which in my opinion, Delphi is hard to beat. You can also
                                    make a 16k app with Delphi (if you want to know how, I have the
                                    source for it) which is basically the same as the PB skeleton
                                    sample program. Delphi also support ASM coding like PB.

                                    My idea of PBSEdit is not for the guys at PB to copy and integrate
                                    one just like it with PBDLL. My idea is to continue having the
                                    guys at PB work on a better compiler, faster, better coding etc.
                                    while third parties makes attachments. More like OCX for VB.

                                    You see, if PB starts what we start, we better all switch to VB
                                    or Delphi. Why? Because the price will increase and so as the
                                    compiled app size. We'll no longer have a 10k app, and that's what
                                    nobody wants. We want power (as the product name implies) and
                                    the ability to control our apps at the lowest level. OOP is for
                                    those who don't really care about size, and don't know much about
                                    the Windows API.

                                    BTW, that's why PB now has DDT and almost dump PowerGen (half price).
                                    Because it's easier to use than PowerGen. But it should stop right
                                    there. Low level commands to create dialogs and controls is fine,
                                    and that's what DDT does.

                                    If the guys at PB turn PBDLL into PBIDE, you could call it...
                                    PowerDelhi not PowerBasic

                                    BTW, PBSEdit stand for PowerBasicSuperEditor. That's the best I
                                    could come up with at the time!

                                    Let me ask, what's so wrong about an external IDE/OOP translator
                                    for PBDLL where only those who need it will use it, without any
                                    changes to the PBDLL compiler?

                                    -Michael-

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      To: Chris Boss

                                      I've received your email and will reply via email also.

                                      -Michael-

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        To: Chris Roebuck

                                        I just email you the file. Only 40k.

                                        I have no idea why the link doesn't work! It does for me here.
                                        But again, we can't expect much from a free server.

                                        -Michael-

                                        Comment

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