16bit v32 bit & VB

[Tyrone W. Lee]

I have been using PB2.0 with VB3 to make a role playing game creation
engine. And I am greatly impressed with the results I have with
the two language. Over the past week I have been trying to port
my code to PB6.0 and VB5 to take the application to 32bit.

On the PB side a few commands have been left out for the upgrade namely:
GetStrAlloc and RlsStrAlloc.. Several people have posted some alternatives
ways of allocating memory but this initially bothered me.

But here is the real issue..

When using Vb3 in conjuction with PB2.0, I was able to pass a pointer
to a variable or an array once and have the PB .DLL application
hold its value through the entire execution of the code. Allowing
the PB application to update/manipulate global variables "in sync" with
VB3. I was very impressed at how well it worked with my game application.

I have tried to convert the code to VB5/PB6 and I am unable to get
the same results. It appears that Vb5 moves variables around while
the program is running. Global variables/arrays must constantly
be re-passed to PB .DLL's throughout the execution of the code. Else
PB will attempt to update a variable that "isn't there anymore" Also
causing PB to write in arbitrary areas of memory.. (BAD)


I discovered this when I passed a Variable UDT to PB and began printing
the pointer location values to a disk file. I noticed that the
variable location (*pointer) began to change/move as the code continued to run.


This concerned me, and I was wondering if anyone was experiencing
the same problems or could shed some light on making this conversion
go smoother.

If this is the case, I may remain a 16bit developer.. 32bit is too unstable
for my tastes..

Tyrone Lee


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Explorations v3.0 RPG Development System
http://www.explore-rpg.com

[Gregery D Engle]

Tyrone,

I think that is just a VB thing. I've never run into issues
like that but I know that what your talking about isn't
a 32 bit issue. If rewriting your application to 32 bit means
a lot to you try rewriting it entirely in PB. It will be
small in filesize, and faster execution.

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-Greg

[Michael Mattias]

Hmm, I think it IS a 32-bit issue.

Win3 used a shared set of global variables and the addresses (selector ffset) were common across all 16-bit programs. A pointer value in one process was valid in all processes.

Under Win32, pointers are valid only within a single process and other methods need to be used to share data across process boundaries.

(e.g., memory mapped files, global atoms, etc.)

MCM

[Tyrone W. Lee]

Exactly what I thought ^^ With the shift of variable memory around
between processes I can see why 32bit programs don't run reliably..

Well what about using PB6.0 and PB2.0 together. For instance,
I want my BP2.0 (DLL) to link to a PB6.0 routine. The PB2.0 will pass
arrays to the PB6.0 (DLL) that executes some MAT (math) commands.

Is this possible? So I can stay 16bit but get the best of both worlds?


Currently I only use VB3 for forms and general character generation.
All of my database, script variable engine, combat, animations and
*important* code is written in PB2.0

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Explorations v3.0 RPG Development System http://www.explore-rpg.com

[This message has been edited by Tyrone W. Lee (edited April 23, 2001).]

[Michael Mattias]

As far as I know, it "can" be done. So "can" rebuilding the Golden Gate Bridge using Toothpicks and Elmer's Glue-All. (I looked at doing this once and gave up: and I do not give up easily!).

I am a long-time critic of "verb-for-verb" porting of software to new languages or operating systems, because the target platform is invariably newer and has ways to do things far more effectively than the old. (That makes sense, right? After all, if the new platform has no advantages, why port in the first place?)

As long as you are porting to 32-bit (one of your original statements) why not port all the way?

But maybe your first job is to decide if you really want to go 32-bit or not. If yes, there's a whole bunch of VB info on this site, and most folks here will help you with specific challenges.

MCM

[Edwin Knoppert]

A few months ago i wrote a 16bit VB3 to >> use a 32bit DLL
Search for huge mem in the source section
(Generic thunk)


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[Charles K. Kincaid]

Originally posted by Tyrone W. Lee:
Exactly what I thought ^^ With the shift of variable memory around
between processes I can see why 32bit programs don't run reliably..

Hold the phone! Tyrone, you are off the mark here a bit my friend.
32bit apps run just fine an do interprocess communication every day.
Of course if an app does not follow the rules, all bets are off.

<Snip>
Currently I only use VB3 for forms and general character generation.
All of my database, script variable engine, combat, animations and
*important* code is written in PB2.0

I agree with others who have said go PB all the way. Either DDT or some
other front end generator.

If you are that good at the animations and stuff just consider all the setup
dialogs just to be other "game elements". I get bored with standard
looking dialogs in games anyway.


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ATB

Charles Kincaid

[This message has been edited by Charles K. Kincaid (edited April 23, 2001).]

[Michael Mattias]

[/quote]
I agree with others who have said go PB all the way. Either DDT or some
other front end generator.
[/quote]

Oh, I must disagree. The beauty of Windows (or DOS) is that DLLs (or OBJs on MS-DOS) are a common form of executable code which are language-independent. The programmer may write different pieces of an applicaiton in the langugae which makes the most sense for that piece.

But I can't go as far as to say to write some pieces 16-bit and other pieces 32-bit.

If VB makes sense for part of an application, by all means, use it.


MCM

[Tyrone W. Lee]

I wish it was that simple.. VB5 would give me less control over my
front end controls than VB3.. And can NOT see 16bit .DLL's

I want to stay under windows because (if any of u have seen my game
application) It utilizes a MDI form to create a split screen
Diablo/Baulder Gates RPG..

With a few modications the engine will add split screen play to
strategy games.. If any of you played Age of Empire, wouldn't it have
been nice to look at 2 places on the map at the same time.. These
viewports could help this..

Well.. I think I stay 16bit for a while until I feel secure
with Windows 32bit..

------------------
Explorations v3.0 RPG Development System
http://www.explore-rpg.com