Announcement

**Russ Jones** · 16 May 2001, 05:21 PM

Yeah, I agree with you, Russell! What *DO* those PB Wizards have
up their sleeve?

(Who was that guy, anyway?)

Thanks!
RPJ

------------------
Talk Sense to a Fool and he Calls you Foolish...

**Borje Hagsten** · 16 May 2001, 05:44 PM

PB policy is not to reveal future improvements or release dates in
advance. While a good policy (don't you also hate it when companies
make promises they can't hold?), they have been throwing out small
"teasers" for years now. My memory can only hold a few KB's of data
back in time, but wasn't it in June 1899 PB/DLL6 came out..?

Maybe they have ended up in endless loop - when the new version is
ready for release, MS throws out yet another buggy version of Windows
and so, back to the drawing board again. Many developers have this
problem today. Soon XP - maybe we'll have to wait yet another year..

Whatever/whenever will come, I'm sure it will be worth the wait though..

------------------

**Lance Edmonds** · 17 May 2001, 05:26 AM

PowerBASIC, Inc. operate a no-vaporware policy which prevents discussion on unreleased products, shipping dates, etc. As Borje says, we don't like missing "announced" shipping dates (unlike a couple of other companies in the software business!), so we only announce products on the day they are ready to start shipping.

Likewise for features... if we have to pull or change a feature that was advertised in advance, this could adversely affect customers that made plans based on the anticipated feature list.

I can say that the PowerBASIC team do have some exciting things in development but I'm not permitted to tell you anything about them... sorry! Lets just say that the R&D team are always very busy...

Beta team members get to preview some of the stuff we are working on, but team membership is strictly limited, you have to undertake a non-disclosure agreement, and commit yourself to spending time (on a daily basis) to the beta process.

------------------
Lance
PowerBASIC Support
mailto:[email protected][email protected]</A>

**Guest** · 17 May 2001, 06:41 AM

OK, tell us what's definitely going to be supported in the new version (I keep hearing it will be an UPDATE - after (almost) 2 years I hope it will have new version level enhancements).

COM: Y/N
32Bit Compiler with silly 16bit limitations gone: Y/N
Compiler supported SEH: Y/N

Your no vaporware policy is honourable, but that's a little archaic in the world of fast moving technology. We are basically sitting at 1994-level technology. Without COM support, PB is severely handicapped. Jazzage is cool and a solotion - but it is a solution in the form of a kludge that is utterly impractical when it comes to complex activex components. Only so much can be done with common controls. This limits PBs ability to attract the masses it will. VB would be practically dead if PB6 had supported COM. Think about it. Now, the flock will be driven to .NUT by the Microsoft greed machine.

Let's go, PowerBASIC, we know you can; we know you can...
My prediction:
... June 2001 - we knew you could, we knew you could...

(Then again, John Dvorak - in 1995 - predicted that Microsoft would be dead within 2 years)

**Lance Edmonds** · 17 May 2001, 06:59 AM

Ok, we are definitely going to include... ummm... errr... ahhh... yes.

There will be some new stuff, improved old stuff and lots of interesting and useful stuff!

(Sorry, I could not resist!)

------------------
Lance
PowerBASIC Support
mailto:[email protected][email protected]</A>

**Borje Hagsten** · 17 May 2001, 07:28 AM

PBVD 7.0 will come with self-writing code and automatic debugging, plus
no need for stupid COM support, because all will be built-into designer,
so even huge Client-Server relational databases can be compiled to tiny
4687 byte app's.

Also, no need for stupid Windows anymore. PB app's will have their own
100% safe OP systems built-in, so they can be run on emty PC from simple
diskette. Will revolutionize the whole world as we know it and make all
current PB/DLL 6 users extremely rich, because only those of us who
bought version 6 will be enabled to get and use the new version.

Wet dream? Nah, I'm absolutely sure - Bob Zale himself told me this 05.00
this morning, just before I woke up with my head against the screen..

------------------

**Guest** · 17 May 2001, 07:48 AM

Thanks, Lance. At long last a straight answer!

**Cecil Williams** · 17 May 2001, 07:55 AM

Borje,

Sounds like you definitely need to upgrade your 4K cache.
You might try the new DDR (double data rate type) so you'll
be able to keep up with yourself going and coming!!!!
Just joking of course, couldn't resist!!!!

Cheers,
Cecil

------------------

**Gary Akins** · 17 May 2001, 08:03 AM

Lance - as you've no doubt noticed by now, , a number of us have problems with this no-vaporware policy of PowerBASIC's. I truly believe this is a bad policy on PB's part, highly unrealistic in today's environment, and a source of great frustration to more developers than you probably realize - but since it appears that you are not the one with the authority to change the policy even if you were so inclined, tell me this: Who, exactly, should we be directing our petitions to in order to get this policy amended or done away with?

In the meantime, if you can't discuss specifics, can you at least provide a general idea of where PowerBASIC might be going? Do you expect to release the new PB/DOS and PB/Windows versions within the next... when? A year? Two years? Five? Ten? Is it even remotely possible that we might see the hinted-at Linux version become available within the next two years, or will it be longer? If and when PB/Linux does come to pass, is the current plan to make it a console-only product like PB/CC, or will it be a PB/DLL-like product able to interface with desktop environments like KDE or Gnome?

------------------

**Edwin Knoppert** · 17 May 2001, 08:44 AM

Gary,

At some point you'll just reconsider you development tool(s)..
When will this be?

I agree with you, PB can not uphold this for to long if you require certain (new) tasks.
People will change at the end.

At the other end, people are sometimes overcurious.
For myself, i can live with the product as it is.
Some thingies should be improved like a better editor-environment.
PBEdit is a bit unstable at some points.

VD, i don't really mind at the moment.
I certainly don't need additional stuff to handle controls messages etc..

COM, pffft only shortcuts and some directory stuff is what i used so far.
Native (M)DB support would be nice. (Not ODBC)

The rest is in my hands.

------------------

**Borje Hagsten** · 17 May 2001, 08:57 AM

Cecil, unfortunately they stopped making memory chips that fits into
my worn-out slots 20 years ago.. %)

Gary, I believe that would be Mr. Zale himself. Please wait a second
so the rest of us gets chance to dive for protection under our desks
before that discussion starts..

Kidding, of course. Better a company that delivers and delivers good
stuff, than one that promises the earth and delivers crap, just as late.
Too much of that today as it is, like entire, so called "IT-sector"..

So what if wait has been long. Current compiler does exactly what it
promises - plus a lot more, thanks to many excellent utilities people
have developed with it.

While easy to understand some frustration, best to let PB's R&D work
in peace. Better for us all in the long run. Remember, we may have to
live with version 7 for many years to come, once it's out..

BTW, R&D? Sounds like CIA or FBI to me. Who are these secret people
behind the scene? Would be kind of fun to know, you know..

------------------

**Michael Mattias** · 17 May 2001, 10:00 AM

Lance - as you've no doubt noticed by now, , a number of us have problems with this no-vaporware policy of PowerBASIC's. I truly believe this is a bad policy on PB's part, highly unrealistic in today's environment, and a source of great frustration to more developers than you probably realize - but since it appears that you are not the one with the authority to change the policy even if you were so inclined, tell me this: Who, exactly, should we be directing our petitions to in order to get this policy amended or done away with?

Well, someone has to take the opposing view.

Vaporware is the worst thing on the planet....

- Ask IBM, who darn near went broke on the release of the S/360 because the promised softeware was not ready
- Ask Microsoft, who incurred an awful lot of ill will by announcing Win95 and not delivering as promised
- Ask any developer who was dumb enough to trust a vendor's, "no problem, that will be in the next release."

If these are too abstract..

- Ask anyone who was ever brought into a software development/VAR firm as general manager and found a huge problem with the salespeople promising things never contemplated by developement, customers complaining about all the new features they had 'expected' but were never delivered - ask that person how in three years his firm went from gross distrust to national ercognition of as one of the "Top Ten Small Software Firms in the US."

Go ahead, ask him.

You're asking?

OK: The first thing I did was stop the vaporware!

PowerBASIC has their pre-release policy just right. Please change nothing.

(Except let's get new releases a bit more frequently. At times it's hard to tell if you are still in business).

(They don't have to be major releases. But at least, throw us a bone!)

MCM

**Russ Jones** · 17 May 2001, 05:48 PM

I'm sure that when the new handy dandy Super Extra Deluxe PBDLL
version 7 TURBO (Championship Edition) is released, it will be
awesome. And I *BEG* and *PLEAD* with PowerBASIC to include a
HUGE manual (electronic is fine) with LOTS of examples....

Heck, I'd even PAY for a manual if it gave a rundown on Windows
programming with PBDLL that doesn't assume a prior knowledge of
Windows programming (I believe at one time Dave Navarro was
working on something along this line?)

I love PB. But I love it enough that I want it to succeed and I
think we all agree that it needs some things that I'm sure you
guys are working on.

Keep up the great work, guys. You'll release it when you are ready
and we'll have some requests ready for version 8!

Take care!
Russell Jones

------------------
Talk Sense to a Fool and he Calls you Foolish...

**Michael Meeks** · 17 May 2001, 06:33 PM

I have to agree with Michael..
<quote>
(Except let's get new releases a bit more frequently. At times it's hard to tell if you are still in business).
(They don't have to be major releases. But at least, throw us a bone!)
<unquote>

I would have gladly paid for an update from 16 to 32Bit Compiler,
which could have easily been PB 6.5 and have generated revenue.
You don't have to climb the highest mountain for the next release!

And it's true... many of us are looking for other ways to tackle
some of the complex problems for todays companies that need good
solid programs, databases and server related support.

So, what do we do while we wait? Discover other options and
spend some money to see who is who in the programming world.

Delphi 6 was my lastest retreat. Why, stand around and wait for
something that may or may not happen? The contracts are here now,
not 3 or more months down the road.

"Well, I'm sorry Sir; We don't do COM! "However,
we do have the fastest roll-of-the-dice you will ever-see!"

However, since the release of Ezgui2, Cheeta, Designer, and other
creative PB tools that many of you contribute to this wonderful
site, it does keep us going for another day!

How many programmers does PB have on staff ? We already know
they are over-worked, under-paid - smoke, drink coffee and program
all at the same time!

Just having fun!

(My Predictions)
COM: Y
32-BIT: Y
IDE-Visual Tools: Y
DDT Engine: Y
ActiveX: N
Client/Server: Y
Internet: Y
BloatWare: N
Fast: Y

Have a great day

MWM

------------------
mwm

**Troy King** · 17 May 2001, 10:53 PM

I agree with PowerBasic's no vaporware policy, but in the meantime, some of us have had to move on. PB/DLL is without a doubt my absolute favorite language/compiler, but because I can't say if or when a feature even *might* be included, I have to deliver stuff in VC++, as much as I hate it. My clients and employer agree with me about PB's quality when I show them source and compiled apps, but when they have requirements for COM and the like *without reliance on third-party tools without source*, I have to use C++, ATL and WTL. I don't know if anyone else has fiddled with WTL, but it's friggin sweet, and I'm generating apps that rival PB-coded apps.

So while I respect the policy, I have to move to things I don't like because I can't even say "They hope to have native support for X, Y and Z in the next release."

I don't know about you guys, but I really hate coding in C++. I'd done pretty well there for a while using PB for nearly every project/job, but can't now. Oh well, it's not PB's fault, but throwing us a bone here and there, even an unofficial one, would be nice.

------------------
Troy King
[email protected]

**Mark Newman** · 18 May 2001, 04:04 AM

I do wish that PB would release periodic updates, say every 6 months.
These could include defect repairs, new features, utilities or even
just some cool new sample code.

We're getting close to two years since PB 6 was released, and in that
time we've had no updates, except to the resource compiler (please
correct me if I'm wrong). Even the Evil Empire releases service packs

------------------
Mark Newman

**Lance Edmonds** · 18 May 2001, 05:34 AM

Thanks for the feedback folks - we really do understand the situation and appreciate that you have taken the time to let us know what you feel.

We are working on new products, updates and upgrades continuously, however writing compilers in pure assembly language is not something that can be rushed! We don't like releasing products that are "almost" finished, and I'm sure most people would rather have a compiler that is as bug-free as humanly possible, rather than one that is "mostly" finished!

JFYI, the "no-vaporware" policy is the policy of PowerBASIC Management... if you have an opinion then please feel free to let Management know... you can always send your feedback to [email protected] or [email protected]

Thanks!

------------------
Lance
PowerBASIC Support
mailto:[email protected][email protected]</A>

**John Petty** · 18 May 2001, 06:09 AM

Lance
While I agree with the "no-vaporware" policy as a devoted PB supporter I do believe PB is missing a very important support element, which is a list of known bugs and suggested work arounds. I have seen forums where you have used phrases like "it is broke" so obviously you have such a document. Even M$ purports to list this (though I have had personal experience of them not including all known issues).

The point I am trying to make is that if a program of mine didn't work and I suspected the compiler I would spend several days checking everything I have written before believing it was the compiler at fault! Imagine how I feel when you comment that this is a known bug or issue when there is no FAQ listing for it.

This actually happened to me when I first purchased PBDLL 1.1 (I didn't know of the forums then) where I spent 2 weeks proving there was a bug in a simple string compare. I e-mailed support who told me (a registered owner and user) that I should download the latest version, gee why did I bother registering with an e-mail address if I have to ask to find out there is a major bug and new fix version.

In summary I bought PB for speed, but that includes debugging time and it has now been over two years since there have been any bug fixes.

------------------

**Tom Hanlin** · 18 May 2001, 07:20 AM

It's interesting that there's some desire to see us promise features that may never
actually materialize, as long as the promises are detailed! But this not our practice.
I might suggest, though, that you can get some good hints by looking at wish-list
requests here.

BTW, Mark, the WinAPI files are updated regularly. http://www.powerbasic.com/files/pub/pbwin/

------------------
Tom Hanlin
PowerBASIC Staff

Announcement

Features being considered...

Features being considered...

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment