Vista OS

[Iain Kennedy]

My 8 year old Pc is due for the bin, but I am not looking forward to moving from XP to Vista. I read a lot about linux OS. Does anyone have any experiance of using PB under Linux and does Linux run all Windows programmes without problems?

[Barry Marks]

I got Vista with this laptop. I bought it while saving for a new XP laptop because Walmart had a one day half price sale on it a few months ago. I first checked with Acer to make sure XP drivers were available and they were so I got it thinking I'd install XP.

I decided to give Vista a try first since it was already installed and I'm really glad I did.

There were some problems, especially at first before I learned how to turn off User Account Control, a very good safety feature they included in Vista and the source of nearly all the problems. Once I decided to turn UAC off 95% of the problems simply went away.

I still have one shareware program that I can't use in Vista and an update from them doesn't seem likely any time soon. But that's it! Everything else is working just fine.

There are a lot of little improvements in Vista and a lot of small things that aren't quite as good. Nothing very important in either case and that just about balances out. For me the big advantage of Vista is the way it works easily and naturally with MP3 players and PMP players. I do a lot with them and players that required that I use software in XP just work with Vista. It's great.

Anyway, I wouldn't completely rule out Vista unless there's something you know about that will be a particular problem for you. If you're a tinkerer at all you might like it.

Barry

[Paul Squires]

I think Barry's assessment is spot on. Vista is not as bad as the marketing and hype machines make it out to be. Since SP-1 it has been much better. Turning off that irritating UAC "feature" makes the OS very usable for power users. Granted, the OS is still not a star performer. You really need a new modern PC to be able to tolerate the memory requirements that Vista uses for all the fluff. Sure, Microsoft could have done a better job - and I guess that expectations were set very high especially given the reousrces at Microsoft's disposal. We were certainly let down but not to the extent that many people feed the FUD.

[Rodney Hicks]

Barry and Paul have given some good advice re Vista. I've been using it since it first came out, and while there were a few incongruities at first, it has been performing remarkably well for at least the last year. There will be things that you are a little uncomfortable with at first, but far fewer than switching to Linux in any of its various schemes.

[Joe Byrne]

I know there are a number of satisfied Vista customers, but there were the select few who never had any real problems with ME either. Steve Balmer has already stated that Vista was a huge mistake and the 'smart' thing to do was wait for Windows 7. MS has even lifted the ban on OEMs to install XP. I just ordered 6 new Levono laptops and 3 Dells (for resale) and all have XP Pro installed, no problem from the manufacturer or Microsoft. BUT... the question wasn't if Vista was any good or not, it was....

Does anyone have any experiance of using PB under Linux and does Linux run all Windows programmes without problems?

Just the fact that you asks means you're far better off staying with Windows, maybe even Vista over Linux. This is not to be insulting, just that you don't seem to have any real knowledge of Linux yet.

Windows doesn't run under Linux any more than your auto runs water instead of gasoline. However, there are "ways" to run some Windows programs on Linux. The whole "WINE" project and its derivatives (Crossover, etc) are an attempt to get native Windows apps to run on Linux, however, that isn't easy, and they are never going to get every Windows program to run. They target the mainstream applications and hope to get 95% or better compatibility. Office is the main goal and actually, I think Crossover will run Office 2003 and older pretty much perfectly. However, each and every application needs to be tested, and code tweaked, before you can say it "runs with crossover" (or any other WINE based code).

So the bottom line here, is that Linux has its place certainly, but if you are mostly interested in maintaining your investment in your Windows programs, then stay with Windows. You'd be far better off fighting with the incompatibilities of a Windows program on Vista that you would the incompatibilities on Linux.

But, like I said, you don't have to be forced into Vista if you don't want to be.

[Cliff Nichols]

you don't have to be forced into Vista if you don't want to be.

You are if you have to support your program, and come to find out the user is using Vista.

(But then again, that would be the same with any OS, and "To WHAT extent do you support your program?")

Personally, anything I have made using PB has worked on any Windows system 95 and up. And on Linux (using WINE, but the graphics were not TOTALLY the same, but usable), and even reports of Apple using Wine so I see no problem with "Stick with what you KNOW, and learn what you CAN" (as it should be with any OS or compiler)

[Joe Byrne]

Cliff,

I tend to agree with the idea of "learning what you can", but the way I heard the initial question lead me to believe that Iain was under the impression that Windows applications could "run out of the box on Linux". If so, then clearly the answer is no.

As for supporting applications, each has their own view. I don't support anything prior to Windows 2000 (and that's coming to an end soon), nor Vista. When I'm considering an OS upgrade, the first thing I do is verify that the software I use is supported on the OS in question. To not do so leaves you vulnerable to problems of all sorts.

I have customer's that are reviewing another application software because the vendor is not supporting Vista. That's their prerogative, both the developer and the end-user. At this point, my customer clearly feels that the application software is far more valuable than "keeping up-to-date" with the OS, so they were relieved to hear that MS is not trying to force Vista down the consumer's throat any more. A good move by MS I might add.

So in any case, I firmly believe everyone should play with Linux. I think it has a huge potential future, but I don't think people want to go full bore into it as their primary/production OS and lose their investments in Windows application software. Personally, I like the VM model where I can run various flavors of Linux on my machine at the same time...on top of Windows. Gives me the best of both worlds without having to physically move between computers all the time.

[Conrad Hoffman]

FWIW, I didn't want Vista, but ended up with it on a new computer (tiny Acer the size of a book) that runs my basement electronics lab via a GPIB interface. I do a bit of PB development on it, and have had no trouble whatsoever with that, or the control programs I write. I just set up a wireless connection to my upstairs computer and that will probably be ok if I ever get the Vista permissions and sharing sorted out. The thing is just too darn protective.

[Fred Buffington]

I don't care for the search in Vista. Not nearly as good as previous versions.

It doesnt come with a fax monitor, so third party software is needed if that is
to be used.

Yahoo messenger frequently disconnects on my vista machine and it interrupts
using some other internet functions from some sights.

BTW, how do you turn off the UAC ? It doesnt bother me, but maybe it would lead to less headaches for my wife when she is using the computer.

I do like that the home premium edition includes remote desktop whereas XP home only allowed a 30 day trial until it shuts down that feature then you must purchase it separately.

[Albert Richheimer]

BTW, how do you turn off the UAC ? It doesnt bother me, but maybe it would lead to less headaches for my wife when she is using the computer.

Look here or here.

Cheers
Albert

[Cliff Nichols]

Just to razz Conrad a lil

GPIB interface

Till Nat Instruments seemed to keep it, I always thought that technology died?? (good riddance too, but it creeps up from time to time)

Nothing against it...I just dont use it...the only problem is when it somehow is my fault when someone does and my code does not work for them.

Anyways in the end, it is not the code, the OS, nor how you communicate...its how each operates with the other that matters

[Conrad Hoffman]

I've no love of the GPIB interface, it's just that I can get all this great cheap used test equipment that happens to have it. IMO, the traditional GPIB cards are a PITA. What you want is the little Prologix USB/GPIB converter for $149. It essentially converts GPIB to USB and comes with a driver that's easy to use with PBWin. At work we buy the new Agilent equipment with USB built in, but the control and data format is essentially unchanged from the GPIB versions, or they have GPIB too. For an ancient standard, it's doing pretty well. We also recently got a Gurley (Troy NY) rotary encoder and I was pleased to find it used the same FTDI chip set as the Prologix converter. That meant all my PBWin code for the Prologix was instantly usable for the encoder.

[Mike Doty]

If I didn't have to use Vista, I wouldn't. It is a downgrade in my opinion.
No full screen for DOS. Kludge security.
I've seen it work on things in the background for a long time without warning. If everything is written for Vista it would probably work much better, but every program was not. My rating, it works.

[Barry Marks]

If I didn't have to use Vista, I wouldn't. It is a downgrade in my opinion. No full screen for DOS.

For that I installed Microsoft's free Virtual PC. They claim it's not supported with Vista Home Premium, which is what I'm using and they also claim it no longer supports DOS. But it's working just fine with my system and DOS. Some of the extras don't work with DOS such as the mouse integration but the mouse works just fine without it.

This does NOT give me a full screen DOS and if I was playing DOS games that would be a drawback. It gives me DOS in a window but when the program switches to graphics and what would be full screen in XP it works just fine in the window. In some ways it's even better for me since I'm playing with my own little graphics stuff in DOS and the window stays a window, which I like.

By the way I'm not completely disagreeing that in some ways Vista is a downgrade. It's a rewrite, or so I've heard, and there are many rough edges where the more mature XP was nice and smooth. I like Vista and I'm glad I have it but I do grumble about it sometimes.

Barry

[Fred Buffington]

Turning off UAC - Thanks Albert.

[Iain Kennedy]

Thanks for all your comments. It has certainly eased my fears about Vista. I suppose I am loath to put money into Microsofts hands. I have been using Open Office Org office suite for several years quite happily and hoped there was a viable alternative to Vista; seems there is not.

[Rodney Hicks]

There's no reason to stop using Open Office on Vista. I use it.