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  • PBWin vs PB Console Compiler

    Hi

    I need to build GUI apps as well as Windows Services/Console apps. Can I do all these application types with PBWin or do I need to also by the Console Compiler. From looking at the documentation it would seem I could do everything from PBWin but I thought I would ask in case I have missed some subtle differences.

    Thanks

  • #2
    1st post there buddy. Welcome to the board.

    Both compilers are basically the same internally. The main difference being the interface betwixt the user and the monitor.

    PBwin is strictly GUI. The interface can't go "console". (i.e., looks like a DOS application).

    PB/CC, on the other hand can go console or graphics, but in graphics, you'll have to "roll your own" interface.
    There are no atheists in a fox hole or the morning of a math test.
    If my flag offends you, I'll help you pack.

    Comment


    • #3
      So if I have PBWin then there is no need to use PB Console compiler for producing Windows services or console apps?

      Simon

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      • #4
        For what you get at the price, get both. Many of us here do.
        Depending on what an few hours of your time is worth, it makes no sense not to get both compilers for the jobs you'll end up doing. But start with one and you'll see this for yourself.
        Rod
        In some future era, dark matter and dark energy will only be found in Astronomy's Dark Ages.

        Comment


        • #5
          I'm a programmer for a software company, and I've used PB/Win for everything that's been handed to me ever since it first came out.
          I got PB/CC when it first came out and have never had reason to use it.
          So I guess it depends on whether you need console or not.
          I kissed DOS goodbye long ago, so I stick to PB/Win, which I believe to be the best windows compiler on the market.
          Just another view.
          Jim
          Jim Seekamp

          Comment


          • #6
            Hi

            Yes I was thinking to get both, however I just wanted to be sure that there was good reason to do so.

            Simon

            Comment


            • #7
              PB/CC has all the Console functionality built-in. Things like PRINT, COLOR, INPUT, INKEY$, INSTAT, LOCATE, Pages, STDIN & STDOUT for CGI, and lots more. All the needed Console functions. PB/WIN, on the other hand, offers Dialogs, buttons, menus, Listviews, Treeviews, Edit boxes, etc.

              You can write code for the API in either one to emulate the other, but that takes away from your productive programming time. Your choice!

              Best regards,

              Bob Zale
              PowerBASIC Inc.

              Comment


              • #8
                PB/WIN can create generic win32 dll's.
                (And com servers)
                hellobasic

                Comment


                • #9
                  FWIW, in my opinion if you are constrained to "pick exactly one compiler" (I have licenses for both)....

                  It is a LOT easier to create GUI applications with the Console Compiler (use CreateWindowEx() or DialogBox()) than it is to create console apps with the Windows Compiler (WriteConsolexxxxx, ReadFile, etc) .

                  I find some of that console stuff downright peculiar.

                  YMMV.
                  Michael Mattias
                  Tal Systems (retired)
                  Port Washington WI USA
                  [email protected]
                  http://www.talsystems.com

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    In MCM's own words
                    It is a LOT easier to create GUI applications with the Console Compiler (use CreateWindowEx() or DialogBox())
                    Really???
                    Really Really????
                    Maybe this is where those of us that use Windows apps (GUI) are confused as to what powers Console holds? (or Just do not know any better?)

                    From one that used to DOS Console (back in the days of 10 print goto 10) I never got why Console still existed
                    (ok ok...you got me, there is 1 or 2 reasons why in the back of my mind)

                    PB gives you both (and for the lack of my understanding, but Console is still pretty popular, but since it is still sooooooooooo popular, there must be a reason )

                    Both Console and Win are sooooo close to each other that sourcecode examples can be easily modified to suit your compiler

                    One thing that does come to mind and am sure will crop up at some point is that (I believe it was MCM himself) that showed how to build a "Console" in a PbWin environment......(although I can not find the code at the moment)

                    Maybe someone can bridge a bit more about "Preconceptions" that even I have of "DOS" vs "GUI" as I am not one to know or inform, I grew up in both, and when offered what I thought was "Old" I chose what I knew, and maybe missed completely that the "Old could also do what I needed and may even be easier?"


                    OK now the rant....."Console I "Just get things done"....GUI..."I allow users to 'Point and Click' and IT....'JUST gets things done" sort of attitude)

                    I for one could find useful a comparison of what I missed, vs whats capable

                    Engineer's Motto: If it aint broke take it apart and fix it

                    "If at 1st you don't succeed... call it version 1.0"

                    "Half of Programming is coding"....."The other 90% is DEBUGGING"

                    "Document my code????" .... "WHYYY??? do you think they call it CODE? "

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                    • #11
                      Console programs can be piped, say like, how a server does PHP applications for you when you do a webpage?
                      Furcadia, an interesting online MMORPG in which you can create and program your own content.

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                      • #12
                        Cliff, CC is so popular because it's easier to transition to from whatever flavor of DOS compiler/interpreter one is moving from.
                        There are no atheists in a fox hole or the morning of a math test.
                        If my flag offends you, I'll help you pack.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I use the Console Compiler mainly for testing non-GUI code. However I have tested graphics there, etc. I also use it for quick applets, e.g. conversion of co-ordinates I need to type in individually anyway. it has a lot of power yet to be tapped. E.g. Splash screens, game front end menus etc. I also used it for writing some Q & D data converter/managers for COM capable apps; e.g. recently using PBCC to test some SQL code as well as re-arrange and modify some MS Access database tables. However most of my old DOS code with lots of GUI, and which I decided to port to windows, fared better by conversion to PBWin and DDT, IMO.

                          So on the other hand, PB Win is the primary tool I use for apps small to enterprise size, where extensive GUI code and callbacks are needed. in these cases I primarily use DDT with PB Dialogs, because I do not normally need the SDK approach. For example a current development has over 180 controls in one form of the a program module, since it is interactively being developed with the companion product PB Forms, I have a better balance in the program, IMO, to concentrate on the extensive interactions between some controls, without the less friendly SDK approach.

                          So if you have the budget for it, I too would suggest that both programs will be useful. You can achieve your goal with either, but if funds are limited and you will have a lot of GUI to do, I'd opt for PBWin. The use of a Graphic Window as an extensive, business GUI would not be as immediately flexible, IME, as using the standard controls that ship with Windows, such as labels, text edit boxes, list boxes, combo-boxes, listviews, treeviews, buttons, image buttons, image controls, status bars, tool bars, splitters, and many many more. PBWin can handle these standard controls with DDT. Version 9, wraps a lot more control functions than ever before, which helps you to employ these controls with versatile PB BASIC syntax. After that point, if you want to write SDK stlye programs, either compiler could be used, but I'd still opt for PB Win. Originally I started with PBWin's predecessor when I moved to PB's Windows products from DOS/QB/BC7 BASIC. I bought PBCC later. I'm glad I have both. No regrets.
                          Rick Angell

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                          • #14
                            I love the console compiler Cliff. Can't believe anybody would want to be without it. When DOS died, went into a coma or whatever happened to it, the Win32 Console subsystem took its place. You wouldn't believe all the neat functionality in there.

                            How do I use it? Like Richard said (and others), its wonderful for test code. For a good while now I've been fooling around with COM. All that low level COM Api stuff works fine in the console compiler, dumping type libraries, etc. Database access code likewise. I know you work with COM ports extensively. What does GUI have to do with that anyway?

                            I think its the kind of thing you get hooked on once you use it fow awhile. I argued myself out of it for a few years telling myself that if I wanted to write console apps I'd just use the Win32 Console subsystem from C, which I am quite familiar with. However, that's such a royal PIA that I seldom did it. Then I got CC4 and decided that was a million times better for a lot of the stuff I do. I'd really highly recommend it to anyone. PRINT is a truely wonderful thing.
                            Fred
                            "fharris"+Chr$(64)+"evenlink"+Chr$(46)+"com"

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              If you never have a need for communications with the console or require redirection I think you would get your biggest bang for the buck with the Windows Compiler. It allows you to create SDK Windows as well as PowerBASIC's proprietary DDT which allows very fast GUI creation, just no console input/output.

                              As Mike M. stated, you can use Console Compiler to create SDK windows, but there is no DDT support. All depends on what your final solutions are going to look like and how fast you want to get there.

                              The trade-off really becomes DDT vs. Console I/O, and both have their place.

                              My suggestion...buy both and support Bob ... I use both equally so I bought both.
                              Last edited by George Bleck; 24 Mar 2009, 10:00 AM.
                              <b>George W. Bleck</b>
                              <img src='http://www.blecktech.com/myemail.gif'>

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                >>It is a LOT easier to create GUI applications with the Console Compiler (use >>CreateWindowEx() or DialogBox())
                                > Really???
                                > Really Really????


                                For those of us who started with PB compilers in The Dark Times Before DDT, CreateWindowEx() and DialogBox() hold no mysteries.

                                Really.
                                Michael Mattias
                                Tal Systems (retired)
                                Port Washington WI USA
                                [email protected]
                                http://www.talsystems.com

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Come to think of it, some of us started in the Really Dark Times... back to the Age of Windows/3x and PB/DLL version 2.0... when there was no Console Compiler at all.
                                  Michael Mattias
                                  Tal Systems (retired)
                                  Port Washington WI USA
                                  [email protected]
                                  http://www.talsystems.com

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Creating SDK GUI programs is neither easier or harder in PBCC. The code is identical. The IDE handles both the same way. Probably the reason for this sentiment is because of how a console window can be used in debugging. it is a reason why many use it to proof code of all types, other than DDT GUI code. Simply put, you dump your feedback to a console window for quick examination. Now that said, you can also use the debugger to do much of the same thing, but sometimes stepping though a program point to point or line by line is not as Q & D as the PRINT myvar approach. That is the "easy" thing about PBCC. You can print numerics without (FORMAT$ or STR$) and quickly see whats happening ... an alternate debugging approach some have called it. With the shortcut "?" for PRINT you can save scads of typing too

                                    That said, PBWIN is still my number 1 compiler, and PBCC is mainly for help in development.
                                    Rick Angell

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      CC is so popular because it's easier to transition to from whatever flavor of DOS compiler/interpreter one is moving from.
                                      Aggreed, but a lot of stuff I used to know was long passed on
                                      And I believe its what I passed on that I am either missing (or I TOTALLY GET) that Console is still like it used to be...(I give it info, it gives me results.....no flash, no "Wait For it...Waaaaaiiiiit forrrr itttt, wait forrrr itttt", bam heres the results)

                                      I will admit VB spoiled me with "Click a button" heres the results
                                      but testing, I resort to MSGBOX (and that is a PITA, depending on what I am working on)

                                      So I was kinda hoping that someone could show me a useful idea for using PBCC over PBWIN.

                                      MCM himself (somewhere here, but can not find in the source-code forum, but know it exists) gave me my 1st hints at giving PBCC another shot with creating a console under PBWIN.....so wondered if someone had the same for creating a GUI under PBCC?????

                                      I have NOTHING against 1 vs the other...and I would agree that either one is a heck of a quantum leap (both in ease and POWER) over the carrots dangled in front of your nose by other products.

                                      In fact the 2 products are so close that I often use samples from PBCC to learn something (I just comment out the "WaitKeys" statements, and most work as advertised )

                                      I would suggest both (if you can see both sides) and I can cause a VB Refuggeeeeee.....and would you not know it...what was my 1st PB app??? (making a TERMINAL to interface a serial port)
                                      Engineer's Motto: If it aint broke take it apart and fix it

                                      "If at 1st you don't succeed... call it version 1.0"

                                      "Half of Programming is coding"....."The other 90% is DEBUGGING"

                                      "Document my code????" .... "WHYYY??? do you think they call it CODE? "

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        >Creating SDK GUI programs is neither easier or harder in PBCC. The code is identical.

                                        Well, yes it can be the same, but that was not the basis of comparison.

                                        I was trying to say which of these was easier:

                                        Create GUI program using PB/CC
                                        ** OR **
                                        Create Console program using PB/WIN

                                        I say "can be" the same code because there are lots of PB users who use DDT syntax to create GUIs, syntax not available at all in PBCC.

                                        If you've never known anything but DDT, using CreateWindowEx() or creating a dialog template in a resource script, calling it with DialogBox() or CreateDialog() and writing the window/dialog procedure using either compiler could be quite alien.

                                        MCM
                                        Michael Mattias
                                        Tal Systems (retired)
                                        Port Washington WI USA
                                        [email protected]
                                        http://www.talsystems.com

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