Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

PB Windows programs for mobile devices

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • PB Windows programs for mobile devices

    Anyone have any tips for writing mobile device specific apps in Windows 8 or 10? I suppose that a regular program written in PB Windows should work if one is willing to scroll and zoom up/down. Have you found it necessary to make it easier to use so that the users do not feel like they are being inconvenienced by a regular application written for a desktop?
    Last edited by Gary Peek; 11 Jan 2016, 04:13 PM.
    Gary Peek, Industrologic, Inc.

  • #2
    Gary, I have a smartphone with the operating system Windows Mobile 8.1.
    Right now I'm waiting for the upgrade to Windows 10.
    When this happens, I hope to do something with the PBasic for my
    Nokia 1520.

    Regards.

    Comment


    • #3
      The issue is not so much the operating system but the CPU architecture. PB is written using Intel X86 (and improved) machine instructions.
      Most mobile devices use a RISC architecture developed and licensed by ARM Holdings so PB is useless on them without an X86 emulator which of course removes any gains that PB might give.
      A history and description of ARM can be found here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARM_architecture
      Interestingly my understanding is that PB is a P code compiler so it should be easier, though still a massive job, to convert to a different CPU architecture than a different OS.

      Comment


      • #4
        Interestingly my understanding is that PB is a P code compiler...
        I always thought it was a native code compiler. At least, that's what Bob Zale said it was in About on PowerBASIC's home page...

        PowerBASIC is a native code compiler, not an interpreter of any sort. When you compile a program, it's translated immediately into optimized machine code.
        Fred
        "fharris"+Chr$(64)+"evenlink"+Chr$(46)+"com"

        Comment


        • #5
          John
          The issue is not so much the operating system but the CPU architecture.
          Yes it is. Microsoft claims that the W10, will run any application in any environment supported by this OS. This is precisely the big news on this version. And also I think is the way forward for all other OS. CISC / RISC, no matter, the operating system will take over. How to do this ? They know there.

          Comment


          • #6
            Microsoft claims that the W10, will run any application in any environment supported by this OS.
            What environments are supported by Windows 10 then? Windows CE? Linux? iOS? Or just Windows? I'm not trying to be smart. Just asking.
            Fred
            "fharris"+Chr$(64)+"evenlink"+Chr$(46)+"com"

            Comment


            • #7
              AFAIK Windows Phones do not support the full Win32API. Meaning "they will not run anything beyond trivial PB programs". No?

              Added: At one point, MSGBOX was expected (by PB) to exist (in the API) even if the program didn't call the function. I would not expect a phone OS to support MSGBOX, so I have never tried PB stuff on my own Windows phone. I'd expect my phone to shut down if it detected some random EXE fiddling with things.
              Last edited by Eric Pearson; 13 Jan 2016, 02:24 PM. Reason: because I can
              "Not my circus, not my monkeys."

              Comment


              • #8
                http://liliputing.com/2015/09/how-it...esktop-pc.html
                Only Universal Windows Apps designed for Windows 10 will be supported. You cannot run Windows 8.1 mobile apps or legacy Windows apps written for computers with x86 processors.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Had me scared for a second there. But the quote above is bullet statement following:
                  Windows 10 mobile is officially launched, but here’s how things work so far:
                  bold added by me.

                  Which makes sense, or Windows 10 wouldn't be trying to install itself on our "legacy" PCs.

                  C U L
                  Dale

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Fred Harris View Post
                    I always thought it was a native code compiler. At least, that's what Bob Zale said it was in About on PowerBASIC's home page...
                    You are of course correct which actually was my point that it doesn't support different CPU architectures at this time.
                    Saying it is a P code compiler doesn't imply its interpretive or requires a large run time its simply an internal stage in the case of PB which in early versions allowed such fast one pass compiles.
                    Consider taking an early interpretive basic which used interpretive P code with its run time and instead producing a final compilation having inserted all the machine that would have been called using the run time.
                    Understand that in no way does this reduce the brilliance or powerful result of Bob's work.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Update ...

                      I received my Ematic Quad-Core Intel with Windows EWT732BL 7-" 32 GB Tablet which has Windows 10 installed. About $80. I had used neither Windows 10, nor a mobile device (much) before, so it took me a few hours of playing with it to figure out many of the features and setup functions. (I have Windows 7 on my laptop, so I have had a taste of these newer Windows concepts.)

                      The micro USB port seems to be only a Host port, not USB on-the-go, but I could be wrong.

                      I am happy to report that it runs all of the regular Windows application programs that I have tried, including my terminal emulator program compiled with PB 8.04, (although I am going to have to wait for the micro USB to normal USB adapter cable to try the USB to serial port adapter and see if I can have a serial port.)

                      I am going to use this tablet as an "information consumer" only, not as an "information creator", so I am not going to customize it much, nor am I going do any kind of development on it. I am also not going to keep any private information on it, password protected or not. I will assume that on any given day that it can be lost or stolen.

                      I will report on more in the future.
                      Gary Peek, Industrologic, Inc.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Excellent non-speculative data, thanks Gary!

                        Bill Gates now claims that he was misquoted decades ago. He said "640k should be enough for anybody's toaster".

                        32-bit Intel chips running stripped-down Windows XP SP3 probably runs your local ATM. Stoplights have 16-bit or newer chips.
                        "Not my circus, not my monkeys."

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Update #2

                          I still don't have my USB adapter cable yet, so I can't yet comment on using a serial port with my terminal program.

                          I continue to learn more about Windows 10, which is a challenge. Many features are not in a hierarchical menu, and can be called from multiple places, which is confusing.

                          I tried to force myself to use the default web browser, Windows Edge, but when I went to my ISP's webmail system and tried to attach a graphic file to an email, opening the "Attach file" window crashed Edge, so I did what I should have done in the first place, and that is to install Firefox. Edge also has the irritating "feature" of only allowing you to download files to the "Download" folder. Firefox gives you control. Edge also switches the function of the URL line to "search" at times, assuming it knows what you want to do better than you do.

                          The good news is that if you are willing to use a stylus rather than your fingertip to make selections, and if you are willing to use powerful enough glasses to see what is going one, it seems that you can use most Win32 (and perhaps other) applications.

                          (At this point, I have not figured out what it takes to write an application which allows you to "pinch and pull" (zoom) at the screen to resize.)

                          Here are some pertinent links:
                          https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/lib.../dn726767.aspx
                          http://www.businessinsider.com/micro...-flawed-2015-8

                          It seems clear that Microsoft wants everyone to "upgrade" to Windows 10 and to write applications in the "Universal Windows Apps" framework. But the second of those articles indicates that not everyone is jumping on the bandwagon.

                          Perhaps PowerBasic for Windows users can come up with some kind of framework or guidelines to making PowerBasic Win32 applications work reasonably well on multiple platforms, similar to what "Universal Windows Apps" is supposed to do.


                          More to follow.
                          Last edited by Gary Peek; 20 Jan 2016, 06:39 PM.
                          Gary Peek, Industrologic, Inc.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Gary
                            I am happy to report that it runs all of the regular Windows application programs that I have tried,...
                            I was sure it would.
                            I think these are very good news here for the PowerBasic community.
                            The near future will bring even better news. Wait and see how I am right.
                            Although you not wanting to use this new environment as a creator, I'm curious how it would work with the WPB10 compiler.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Gary Peek View Post
                              Perhaps PowerBasic for Windows users can come up with some kind of framework or guidelines to making PowerBasic Win32 applications work reasonably well on multiple platforms, similar to what "Universal Windows Apps" is supposed to do.
                              I repeat that PB produced programs will only run on platforms using Intel X86 architecture and not any other, of importance ARM architecture, even if Windows 10 will.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by john petty View Post
                                i repeat that pb produced programs will only run on platforms using intel x86 architecture and not any other, of importance arm architecture, even if windows 10 will.

                                "Not my circus, not my monkeys."

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  As a friend of mine likes to say...

                                  Click.
                                  "Not my circus, not my monkeys."

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by John Petty View Post
                                    I repeat that PB produced programs will only run on platforms using Intel X86 architecture and not any other, of importance ARM architecture, even if Windows 10 will.
                                    John, I certainly believe you, so if anyone knows of a list of mobile devices, (and in particular, phones) that are Intel X86 architecture and will run PB applications as I so optimistically hope they will, please point us to it.

                                    Perhaps my optimism is based on my Ematic tablet, and there are not that many phones that can do it yet. But of course this is changing rapidly.

                                    http://www.pcworld.com/article/28912...10-phones.html

                                    https://www.thurrott.com/mobile/wind...-intel-in-2015

                                    And even if you don't have a Windows 10 phone, a tablet might do a lot of what you need. That is my situation at least. I already have a TracFone (no kidding!) because I don't need a mobile phone all that often, but my tablet will come in handy for a few things.
                                    Last edited by Gary Peek; 21 Jan 2016, 06:40 PM.
                                    Gary Peek, Industrologic, Inc.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by Gary Peek View Post
                                      John, I certainly believe you, so if anyone knows of a list of mobile devices, (and in particular, phones) that are Intel X86 architecture and will run PB applications as I so optimistically hope they will, please point us to it.
                                      Google will tell you the half of the answer you need.
                                      What you are looking for is phones with X86 architecture and running W10, now that's currently a rare beast.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._Phone_devices

                                        I own an inexpensive Microsoft-branded Lumia 640 XL LTE phone, running Windows 8 (not 10). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Lumia
                                        "Not my circus, not my monkeys."

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X