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  • PB / WIN IDE or JK-IDE?

    What should I choose, PB / WIN IDE or JK-IDE?
    Normally I use UltraEdit, but when I am debugging a program I need another tool.
    /Fim W.
    Fim Wästberg

  • #2
    Kim,
    I'm the wrong person to help out here because I have never used the Debug features of the PBWin/JK-IDE editors, other than just to try them out. I tend to break up my code into very small procedures and haven't had much trouble over the years in finding out which code causes the (many) problems I've seen.

    It could also be that I don't write very complicated programs!

    However, with the JK-IDE being newer, and having tried it out in it's earlier days, I've seen that you''ll certainly get a wider ranger of capabilities with it over the PBWin IDE. I just don't have any hands on experience with the debuggers.

    My needs are generally satisfied with a basic text editor, but syntax highlighting and intellisense are a must. I've not found the need for a debugger.


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    • #3
      Considering the huge amount of answers, I should try to do another way.
      /Fim W.
      Fim Wästberg

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      • #4
        You already have the PBWin IDE (assuming you have PBWin). Try it, then try JK.

        Cheers,
        Dale

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        • #5
          Well, as the author of JK-IDE i´m obviously biased, therefore i didn´t post. This is what i posted in another thread:

          basically the IDE can do all PB´s IDE can do and a lot more. There is a quite comprehensive help file you could/should read beforehand, it will take you some time to discover all it´s possibilies. The IDE comes as a .zip file, so you don´t have to install it, just unzip it to where ever you like. If you don´t like it - delete the folder, and it´s totally gone, no registry bloat, no impact on your system.

          JK

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          • #6
            ((Just in case - I was answering the subject. I did not mean he should not try your IDE))
            Dale

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            • #7
              Howdy, Fim!

              Since I've exposed my debugger inexperience, perhaps you can explain the type of actions that you need to perform in the debugger? Is it program flow? Variable values? I'm interested in hearing what there is about a debugger that pulls you to it.

              As I mentioned, perhaps my apps are simple enough that a debugger is overkill and readily solved by manual techniques. But on the other hand, I know that many folks here use the debugger, so any comments you can make about how you use it would be educational for me!

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              • #8
                I'm like Gary. I've never got around to using the PB debugger.

                I started and continue to program in a number of environments which don't have integrated debuggers, so I've always debugged using manual methods (commenting out sections, heavy use of short functions which I can short circuit with "Function = xxx : Exit Function", liberal use of logging values of variables, msgboxes at strategic points, #DEBUG DISPLAY ON etc, etc

                I've downloaded JK-IDE and played with it a bit, but I keep going back to PBEdit. It does nearly everything I want it to. (On rare occasions, I will open a source file in Notepad++ where I want to do a bit of heavier editing such as column mode cut and paste or RegExp find and replace)


                (Comment to Juergen: I do like "code folding" and use it a lot in Notetab++ when writing PHP but gave up on trying to use it in JK-IDE because the editor doesn't retain the location of the folded code, it jumps back to the first line in the file. A real PITA if you are trying to fold several functions towards the end of your file)

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                • #9
                  Juergen.
                  If you have the time to write. It will be read.
                  Pedsinally. I think you should toot your own horn.
                  It took a lot your time to create a tool.
                  p purvis

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Mostly, I agree with Gary and Stuart.
                    I use logging function in a macro.
                    Code:
                    MACRO LOGGA (LOGGTEXT)  ' Tar ca 11 ms
                        OPEN "C:\WINOVA\KK\LOGG.TXT" FOR APPEND AS #999
                        LOGGA_TIMER = TIMER
                        LOGGA_TIME  = TIME$
                        LOGGA_TID_DELTA = 0
                        IF LOGGA_TIMER_FOREG = 0 THEN close #999: OPEN "C:\WINOVA\KK\LOGG.TXT" FOR OUTPUT AS #999 : PRINT #999, "Tidpunkten    Tid[s]  Ackum tid[s]"
                        IF LOGGA_TIMER_FOREG > 0 THEN LOGGA_TID_DELTA = LOGGA_TIMER - LOGGA_TIMER_FOREG
                        LOGGA_TIMER_FOREG = LOGGA_TIMER
                        LOGGA_TID_DELTA_ACKUM += LOGGA_TID_DELTA
                        PRINT #999, TIME$; "," ; FORMAT$(ROUND(1000*(LOGGA_TIMER - FIX(LOGGA_TIMER)), 0), "000"), USING$("##.###", LOGGA_TID_DELTA), USING$("##.###",    LOGGA_TID_DELTA_ACKUM), RTRIM$(LOGGTEXT)
                        CLOSE #999
                    END MACRO
                    But sometimes the eternal question pops up:
                    How the hell did I end up here? (Is it so in English?) And then I would need a debugger to get the result easier.



                    Fim Wästberg

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                    • #11
                      @Stuart

                      because the editor doesn't retain the location of the folded code, it jumps back to the first line in the file. A real PITA if you are trying to fold several functions towards the end of your file
                      How do manage to do that? The editor does retain the current location.


                      The IDE has a built-in stepping source code debugger, but there are also other debugging tools. You can locate GPFs and run-time errors out of the box. There is a built-in data logger ("ODS", "ODX"). As soon as you use these logging macros in your code, a log window automatically pops up, when the program is run from the IDE. This is the debugging feature i use most myself.

                      You can easily find out where constants, types, variables and procdures are defined in your code or in included files. You can see, which variables are in use and how and where they were defined (local, static, global, threaded). You have a bunch of search options. You can do column mode editing (including copy and paste). Bookmarks, breakpoints, caret position are saved between sessions. You may define all kinds of tools including pre- and postprocessing options for your code. Projects (you may have more than one project open at the same time), intellisense, context help (even for the Windows API) text and code macros, hot keys, you may define to your personal preferences, addons and more ...


                      JK

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Juergen Kuehlwein View Post
                        @Stuart
                        How do manage to do that? The editor does retain the current location.
                        JK
                        I said "the location of the folded code", not the "current location". The two can be many pages apart.

                        I've been opening a source file and scrolling through minimizing code blocks while the cursor is still on the first line, which is why it is jumping to the top of the file.

                        Whenever you expand/collapse a block, the cursor screen display jumps back to the current cursor position,, regardless of how many screen pages that is from the section you are currently interested in (the expanded/collapsed block).

                        Tthe screen can change dramatically when you expand/collapse.
                        If the cursor position is well above a collapsed block and you expand it, you have to scroll l down again to find it.

                        If the cursor position is below a collapsed block and you expand it you have to scroll up (possibly through several screens of lines) until you find the start of the block again.

                        When I expand a block, I want to see the expanded code, not the line I have just scrolled from.

                        In Notepad++ fro example, the clicked +/- remains on the same screen line and only the lines below that line are collapsed/expanded. It makes it very easy to expand a block and then read it. It also makes it easy to scroll up or down through a file collapsing/expanding a series of blocks.

                        If you changed that behaviour I would be very inclined to switch editors because I do like the range of other features you have included.


                        Here's what I mean:

                        Click image for larger version  Name:	fold1.jpg Views:	0 Size:	243.5 KB ID:	786948

                        Click image for larger version  Name:	Fold2.jpg Views:	0 Size:	176.6 KB ID:	786949

                        Clicks on + beside function name....


                        Click image for larger version  Name:	Fold3.jpg Views:	0 Size:	207.5 KB ID:	786950


                        Darn it! Where did that function go? Now I've got to scroll down and find it again

                        or at least, hit F8 and select the function - if it is a full function. It gets worse if the function has multi -level collapsed IF's, Loops etc .

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                        • #13
                          Stuart,

                          i see now what you mean! The way you do it, it is fact annoying. I place the caret above "ZipForUpload" and press "Alt+Enter". This will take you to the ZipForUpload function (works for each and every procedure in your project) and expand it, if it´s collapsed. If you want to go back where you where before just, press "Alt+Left" (cursor key). ZipForUpload is left expanded in this case.

                          But i agree, that expanding should either place the caret to the expanded code location or at least it shouldn´t jump back, which it currently does!

                          I could make it place the caret to the expanded code location, you could easily go back with "Alt+Left" then to where you were before - what do think?


                          JK


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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Juergen Kuehlwein View Post
                            Stuart,

                            i see now what you mean! The way you do it, it is fact annoying. I place the caret above "ZipForUpload" and press "Alt+Enter". This will take you to the ZipForUpload function (works for each and every procedure in your project) and expand it, if it´s collapsed. If you want to go back where you where before just, press "Alt+Left" (cursor key). ZipForUpload is left expanded in this case.

                            But i agree, that expanding should either place the caret to the expanded code location or at least it shouldn´t jump back, which it currently does!

                            I could make it place the caret to the expanded code location, you could easily go back with "Alt+Left" then to where you were before - what do think?
                            I would suggest not moving the caret, just expand/compact the current fold on screen.
                            A "Jump to caret" hotkey would then be very useful - in fact that would be useful in a lot of other situations when scrolling through code
                            (You're not using Ctrl + J at the moment )

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                            • #15
                              Stuart,


                              thanks for reporting this bug! Initially it worked like you expected it, but lately i added a new feature of saving folds between sessions. And there i inadvertendly added this bug too.

                              Regarding a "jump to caret", we don´t need a new hot key - any key will already do, preferably one of the cursor keys....

                              I hope you got, what i said in my last post: you don´t need to scroll down and look for "ZipForUpload"! The IDE can do it for you in three different ways:
                              1.) F8, z, double click on ZipForUpload
                              (the next two require you to have placed the cursor on "ZipForUpload")
                              2.) right click (-> context menu), GoTo Procedure
                              (still easier)
                              3.) Alt+Enter

                              Ctrl+J is reserved for my personal use, mostly for initially testing new things.


                              JK

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