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Alternatives to PowerBasic for Windows ??

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  • Alternatives to PowerBasic for Windows ??

    I am in the process of completing the conversion of a DOS-based ERP system to Windows using PB DDT and plenty of goto.
    These are 250,000 lines of code and 195 separate programs.
    If PB does not come in any new form, for example 64 bit, within five years I consider convertingthe the PB code to some other environment/language.
    If so, what should I choose to convert as much as possible with a conversion program (which I have to write myself)?
    Fim W.
    Fim Wästberg

  • #2
    August 2, Windows 365 comes out.
    It is definitely another environment.

    Curious why 64-bit would make life any better.





    Comment


    • #3
      Yet more hypotheticals!
      Originally posted by Fim Wästberg View Post
      If PB does not come in any new form, for example 64 bit, within five years I consider converting...
      Fim W.
      Why not wait for those 5 years and see what is then available if you still need to convert.

      What will your 32bit WIndows version not be able to do?

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Mike Doty View Post
        August 2, Windows 365 comes out.
        It is definitely another environment.

        Curious why 64-bit would make life any better.

        I personal just see advantages in a 64bit graphic renderkernel for DSLR publishing .. and this really is cuttingedge computer graphics.

        For any "normal" business application there is no advantage with 64 bit

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        • #5


          > For any business application there is no advantage with 64 bit

          Unless you run a huge database, have to edit massive video files, cad cam apps for BIG projects, the list goes on and on. Nothing like working in 64 bit blocks over 32 bit blocks or having massive amounts of memory for tasks that 32 bit chokes on. There was once long ago, some nerd from Microsoft who said you will never need more than 640k of memory, I wonder who that was.
          hutch at movsd dot com
          The MASM Forum

          www.masm32.com

          Comment


          • #6
            Markus,
            You might search for Patrice Terrier.
            He is a graphics expert and has many posts with recommendations on other languages.
            Nothing says you can't use more than one language.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Mike Doty View Post
              Markus,
              You might search for Patrice Terrier.
              He is a graphics expert and has many posts with recommendations on other languages.
              Nothing says you can't use more than one language.
              thanks Mike for this recommendation,,, i will follow him ... maybe he also is interested in my idea

              DSLR (Nikon800) publishing and authoring (by components)
              ===============================================

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67hlqbmLHi4&t=2291s

              I am living in a very rural area in Germany, i have a YouTUBE media range of 5000 Hits/ year and 55 Abonnements ...

              Technical I would be able publishing an authoring tool for DSLR (Nikon 800) ... but from my experience as a 32 bit Sharewaredeveloper who didn't become rich btw. ;o)... I would need at least a media range of 100000 Hits/year and 1000 subscribers on my channel for thinking again about a software product, which actually could have 64 bit multithreaded algos as a render kernel.

              In case a Powerbasic user is interested in this topic ... i am OPEN

              For offering DSLR publishing as a SERVICE (small business) I can do everything in 32 bit by sleeping while PC is rendering

              Comment


              • #8
                ref post 1
                Really?
                Plenty of GOTOs in PBWin code??
                Asking on PB forum how to leave PB???
                Dale

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Mike Doty View Post
                  August 2, Windows 365 comes out.
                  It is definitely another environment.
                  It's still Windows 10 (or Windows 11 when it releases) and Windows 365 looks like it's essentially Azure VDI with Microsoft 365-like pricing and built to integrate better into that ecosystem. The advantages are more for the IT guys and the bean counters: easier to deploy, and easier to estimate and manage costs. The weaknesses of Azure VDI was its complexity and lackluster analytics. It sounds like they've made provisioning and onboarding for end users a lot simpler.
                  Mike Stefanik
                  sockettools.com

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Thanks for all the advice, tips and comments.
                    I'm not doing anything for the time being.
                    /Fim W
                    Fim Wästberg

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      If you have been working on the system for years it is possible to reduce all those programs using a common runtime.
                      When I did this with a huge system and used SQLite the code was reduced by about 75%.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I gave this same response in another place here in the forums, but it's relevant to this thread, too.

                        Using 64-bit versus 32-bit offers no - none, zero, nada, zip, squat - advantages unless you change your program to take advantage of the 64-bit bus.

                        I am guessing here, but 195 programs with a lot of GOTO in MS-DOS could sure as hell be converted to Windows using fewer programs and a lot less GOTO statements. No way can you be taking advantage of the Windows O/S here, except to be able to say "it runs on Win/64 now."

                        I take it back; I am not guessing. I have done this kind of thing enough to know porting to a new O/S is "a lot more than matching the previous code verb-for-verb, function-for-function and statement-for-statement."

                        MCM

                        Michael Mattias
                        Tal Systems (retired)
                        Port Washington WI USA
                        [email protected]
                        http://www.talsystems.com

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Fim Wästberg View Post
                          If PB does not come in any new form, for example 64 bit, within five years I consider converting the the PB code to some other environment/language.
                          If so, what should I choose to convert as much as possible with a conversion program (which I have to write myself)?
                          Fim W.
                          For the past 20 years, I've used PB to supplement (and in some instances replace) functionality of the ERP system we use at work, so perhaps you and I are kindred spirits. I have about 25 major PB projects built with FireFly (I do wish Paul would open source that), plus other little one-offs. I have no idea how many lines of code, but lots. We may soon be looking to change ERP system, which means re-writing some code, and perhaps scrapping other pieces as obsolete.

                          Everything is working now, and PB continues to compile programs that run fine in Win/10 and are blindingly fast. I'm not feeling rushed, but I am planning for the future. As tempting as a conversion program is because of the saved time, I believe in my heart that the real best answer is to just bring up a blank editor window in the new environment and start over. Of course, the algorithms survive, but the best translation is probably done by a human. This would be true even if (maybe especially if) a PB/64 appeared tomorrow.

                          For my needs any new environment has to have a visual designer; this is non-negotiable. ODBC connectivity is a must, as is the ability to continue to use LibXL and Virtual Print Engine (VPE). I'm not worried too much about the 32/64 bit question. None of the programs I've written will really take advantage of 64 bit (well, maybe one, but only because it creates a huge temporary disk file). If in a few years my hand is forced away from PB, the obvious contenders are Visual Studio (C++, C#, VB) or Embarcadero, but some others could work, like PowerBuilder.

                          In any case, my outlook is that it's not yet time to sweat about it too much. I'm keeping my eye on the development landscape, to stay apprised of the options, as well as making myself smarter about using the tool I have -- PowerBASIC.

                          Real programmers use a magnetized needle and a steady hand

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Bud Durland View Post
                            In any case, my outlook is that it's not yet time to sweat about it too much. I'm keeping my eye on the development landscape, to stay apprised of the options, as well as making myself smarter about using the tool I have -- PowerBASIC.
                            My sentiments exactly


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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Steve Hutchesson View Post

                              ... some nerd from Microsoft who said you will never need more than 640k of memory, I wonder who that was.
                              Didn't he get divorced recently...?

                              Eddy

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                > Using 64-bit versus 32-bit offers no - none, zero, nada, zip, squat - advantages unless you change your program to take advantage of the 64-bit bus.

                                Now here is a man displaying his extensive experience in writing 64 bit software.
                                hutch at movsd dot com
                                The MASM Forum

                                www.masm32.com

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  I would never go back to 32-bit,
                                  Patrice Terrier
                                  www.zapsolution.com
                                  www.objreader.com
                                  Addons: GDImage.DLL 32/64-bit (Graphic library), WinLIFT.DLL 32/64-bit (Skin Engine).

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    I got five bucks says both Mr. Hutchesson and Mr. Terrier are doing "something" different from what they do on Win/32.


                                    Michael Mattias
                                    Tal Systems (retired)
                                    Port Washington WI USA
                                    [email protected]
                                    http://www.talsystems.com

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Using 64-bit you bypass wow64.
                                      For graphic intensive application there is a speed gain of at least 30%.
                                      And when dealing with the GPU, 64-bit is a mandatory..
                                      Patrice Terrier
                                      www.zapsolution.com
                                      www.objreader.com
                                      Addons: GDImage.DLL 32/64-bit (Graphic library), WinLIFT.DLL 32/64-bit (Skin Engine).

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by Patrice Terrier View Post
                                        And when dealing with the GPU, 64-bit is a mandatory..
                                        Strange, Task manager tells me that my 32bit VLC is using the GPU.

                                        Click image for larger version  Name:	vlc.jpg Views:	7 Size:	41.9 KB ID:	809427

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