Intel® Itanium™ processor IA-64 Compiler?

[Francis Beaulieu Member Find all posts View Profile Close Francis Beaulieu]

I spoke about this processor one year ago, it is not a secret now that it will getout this summer.

Now[...], we all know that the PB compiler is 16bit. Is Power Basic begin to learn this Risc 64bit with VLI?

IN the next tow years, most of new computers will use this kind of processor. INTEL already worked on a Linux compiler, Microsoft do the same since tow years also. Windows 2K will be updated for 64bit in around 2001.

But, what about PB?!



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Francis Beaulieu
FrabLaser Softwares

[Eric Pearson Member Find all posts View Profile Close Eric Pearson]

Francis --

[This is a shortened version of a response I posted earlier. I hope nobody is composing a response to the first draft as I re-post this... I found out that some of my facts were wrong, and I'm too tired to re-write the whole thing right now. In a nutshell...]

While this is very exciting stuff, my enthusiasm is tempered by a number of factors.

NASA announced today that they believe there is liquid water on Mars. IMO it is premature to ask when it will be availble to the general public in 6-packs of plastic bottles.

Just one man's opinion.

-- Eric

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Perfect Sync: Perfect Sync Development Tools
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[This message has been edited by Eric Pearson (edited June 22, 2000).]

[Francis Beaulieu Member Find all posts View Profile Close Francis Beaulieu]

Good joke Eric!!

But, the futur where those processors will be there is very near...

AMD will also make their own processor 64bit with 3D Now...

PB products will lose speed on this type of processor, and there you will laugh a little bit yellow!

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Francis Beaulieu
FrabLaser Softwares

[This message has been edited by Francis Beaulieu (edited June 22, 2000).]

[Chris Boss Member Find all posts View Profile Close Chris Boss]

Francis;

PB is not too far behind !

It is already a 32 bit compiler.

While technically the compiler is a 16 bit app, the code generated is 32 bit (correct me if I am wrong). I do believe PowerBasic has tried to keep up with the "current" CPU architecture.

Also there can be a problem with supporting "advanced" features of the latest CPUs, since not all CPUs can use the advanced machine code, so you lose compatibility with some end users PCs (older machines). It would be necessary to either have "duel" Libraries of code in the app (makes app bigger in size - bloat) or you would have to deliver two diffrent versions of your app, to make sure all your customers can use it.

While it may be nice to have such advanced features in the compiler for newer CPUs, sometimes it pays to add such features "after" a larger percentage of end users have such hardware.

I don't think PB is behind the times.

ie. I used to use Microsoft Basic 7.1 (one of my favorite DOS compilers) and it had "optimizations" for 286, 386, 486 CPUs. Even though the compiler could create 486 code, I never used the feature. I always generated 286 code (not even 386), so my apps would work on a larger number of end user PCs. My apps ran so fast anyway, there wasn't any need to offer a faster version.



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[Francis Beaulieu Member Find all posts View Profile Close Francis Beaulieu]

Yes Chris it's true[...], but...

The problem will be that this processor is a RISC, therefore the pure power will be consequently no more true because each instruction will be interpreted.

As regards compatibility, a simple condition of compilation would do the work well. Notice that all the current instructions 32bit will be perfectly compatible with this new processor, but they will be carried out less quickly than on its equivalent pentium III...

Compatibility cannot be taken seriously when the speed of the code is critical.

Will the PB compaltor stay fastest in the world?? That will remain to be seen!




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Francis Beaulieu
FrabLaser Softwares

[Scott Turchin Member Find all posts View Profile Close Scott Turchin]

Here's my opinion.
MOST 16 bit apps run on NT, it's a 32 bit processor.

Most 32 bit apps will run on a 64 bit OS/CPU, or nobody will buy them.
I still see customers running our DOS emulation product, if you don't have backwards compatability you lose a share of the market, plain and simple.

Scott

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Scott
mailto:[email protected][email protected]</A>
MCSE, MCP+Internet

[Guest Close KevinVoell]

As someone who's company is developing software for the IA64 here is my opinion.

These chips rock!!
But the itanium is geared towards servers. I don't think we will see desktop units for a while (A year or two, actually not that long only 600 days when you actually think about it).
I especially like the number and size of the registers!! 127 General registers, 127 Application registers, and hundreds of others. I think we are all going to see some spectacular software for the IA64. Intel has been great at supporting developers and the literature they have released is fantastic. They are developing a terrific assembler that blows TASM and MASM away (Though I guess it is not proper to compare them since they are for diffrent platforms, technically). The only problem we have run into is that to get the SDK for IA64, the OS and The Tools team at microsoft need to approve your request (Apperently Microsoft wrote most of the SDK).
I am sure that PowerBASIC has some plans for a 64 bit version, but they don't rush, PowerBASIC does it right the first time! And with the support for prediction and other compile and runtime optimization that intel has put into this chip, writing a compiler for this platform is not easy. Not that writing any kind of comiler is easy, and I have great respect for anyone who writes one.
AMD is also producing a 64bit hybrid (I like that word from X-files! AlienHuman hybrid?? I have worked with some at past jobs!) I call it a hybrid because it just has 64 bit extensions added to the 32bit instruction set unlike the IA64 which has a completely diffrent Instruction set for 64 bit apps and you can switch to the 32bit Instruction set for 32 bit apps. But AMD has not released much info on its processor (Named Sledgehammer).

back to the IA64,
I especially like the Firmware interface with the System abstraction layer and the Processor abstraction layer, which is similar to the bios but is accessable and useable to Os and (some)application software. And the fact that it loads into 64 bit mode is a plus too, which shortens the amount of code my company needs to get the os booted.
I guess I could go on and on and on and on about this architecture, but I won't.

I can say that I am very excited to be working on a up and comming hardware product and I cannot wait to release our product (second quarter 2001), we are going to blow peoples minds!!!!!

My three cents!

Have a fantastic day
Kevin

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