Announcement

**Michael Mattias** · 27 Aug 2009, 09:26 AM

Interesting little program. Took me a while to figure out what the check boxes do (show running total), and I could not figure out what what save and retrieve did (they don't do anything yet), but it's a nice start.

I must be "Windows-fied." I tried to navigate using the tab keys... but this is designed for those accustomed to using the <ENTER> key

For sure on the buttons... you'll want to add accelerator keys when implemented, so user can "Alt+S" to save, or "Alt+R" to retrieve, since you can't navigate with the keyboard to those buttons very easily.

eg ""&Save Tape", "&Retrieve Tape", "C&lear" , etc.

MCM

**Gösta H. Lovgren-2** · 27 Aug 2009, 09:53 AM

Originally posted by Michael Mattias View Post

Interesting little program. Took me a while to figure out what the check boxes do (show running total),

The Subtotals work from the last empty field, say for every 10 items, one could have a subtotal for just those items.

Just now added a few more "instructions" to the startup comments list.

and I could not figure out what what save and retrieve did (they don't do anything yet), but it's a nice start.

No not yet. Maybe today or tomorrow. I was anxious to get feedback on the concept first and add a couple more bellls while it was still in my head. For example, Just added a scroll bar for the main list last night.

I must be "Windows-fied." I tried to navigate using the tab keys... but this is designed for those accustomed to using the <ENTER> key

The prog is designed to allow fingers to stay on the keypad. Moving the list is via the Arrow/Page keys. Bookkeepers, accountants, totaling sales receipts, etc. who do lots of numbers.

For sure on the buttons... you'll want to add accelerator keys when implemented, so user can "Alt+S" to save, or "Alt+R" to retrieve, since you can't navigate with the keyboard to those buttons very easily.

eg ""&Save Tape", "&Retrieve Tape", "C&lear" , etc.

MCM

For sure when I activate the buttons.

Thanks your feedback.

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"Sometimes a scream is better than a thesis."
Ralph Waldo Emerson (1803-1882)
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**Michael Mattias** · 28 Aug 2009, 09:48 AM

When I'm prototyping an application for a client, if there are buttons which are enabled, they always do something.

I just sent one to a client. One of the buttons is "Ok" (as in, "do it"). It pops up a messagebox which says "Here we edit and if it passes we generate the invoice"

You might want to consider that when asking others to review "preliminary" versions of software. I mean, you KNOW what "Save Tape" is going to do (at least 'kind of'), so pop up a message box with that, just so the prospective user knows.

It also has the benefit of telling you your WM_COMMAND/BN_CLICKED notification is coded correctly and you know where your "Retrieve Tape" code must be located.

MCM

**Gösta H. Lovgren-2** · 28 Aug 2009, 01:56 PM

Good Point.

=======================================
"Is not the true romantic feeling
not the desire to escape life,
but to prevent life from escaping you?"
--Thomas Wolfe
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**Gösta H. Lovgren-2** · 29 Aug 2009, 01:11 AM

Just posted updated code above. I think it's almost ready for the Source Code Forum. Still have to add the Save/Retrieve features.

Pretty neat the way the arrow keys work on the Subclass. Left/Right stay in the Textbox if there's data in it, otherwise change columns (don't wanna admit how long that took but you wouldn't of wanted to be holdin yer breath. A "Duh" experience in the end. ... Nope, not a Bounds error, just a rookie one.)

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"Make everything as simple as possible,
but not simpler."
Albert Einstein (1879-1955)
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**Rodney Hicks** · 29 Aug 2009, 03:28 AM

Gösta, it's coming along nicely!!

You might want to make the buttons a dialog unit or two wider, the "Clear Comments" text is clipped.

**Gösta H. Lovgren-2** · 29 Aug 2009, 11:29 AM

Originally posted by Rodney Hicks View Post

Gösta, it's coming along nicely!!

Thanks, Rod. I think so too. It's amazing how the concept has been running around my head since I started with PBWin but I just couldn't get it to come together for windows until we started talking about Multi-Subclasses. Then it just clicked how to do it.

You might want to make the buttons a dialog unit or two wider, the "Clear Comments" text is clipped.

Yeah, I've reduced the font size for the buttons so everthing fits now. It's running around my head to maybe not use the buttons but go with a Menu Bar & Hot keys. Leave more screen room for stats. Maybe Least Squared and Standard Deviation. Maybe reduce tb fonts and get more items on scree. Have to see how readable it is for these old eyes.

You got any ideas for bells, I'm all ears.

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An open foe may prove a curse;
but a pretended friend is worse.
Ben Franklin
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**Rodney Hicks** · 29 Aug 2009, 02:27 PM

I tried your program out this morning on something that was almost perfectly suited for the program. I wanted to know the net value of different items that had at one point all cost the same, so there was a series of : +a, -y, +b, -y, +c, -y, ... , +n, -y.
It gave me the correct Grand Total, but I'm not sure about the average(wasn't important at the time), but the median was always -y.
If I recall correctly the average was accurate for the numbers entered, but not the differences. A subtotal feature perhaps??

Rather than go to a menu, could you maybe make the buttons smaller and use a tooltip to clarify the buttons' uses. Keep the "Abandon Ship".

**Michael Mattias** · 29 Aug 2009, 05:28 PM

> ....I'm not sure about the average(wasn't important at the time),
> but the median was always -y.

Sheesh, he's posting the source code. Maybe you could find the problem, code a solution and send it to him via private forum message.

**Gösta H. Lovgren-2** · 29 Aug 2009, 05:44 PM

Originally posted by Rodney Hicks View Post

I tried your program out this morning on something that was almost perfectly suited for the program. I wanted to know the net value of different items that had at one point all cost the same, so there was a series of : +a, -y, +b, -y, +c, -y, ... , +n, -y.
It gave me the correct Grand Total, but I'm not sure about the average(wasn't important at the time), but the median was always -y.

The average does not include any 0 (zero) numbers in the calculation. Maybe that's throwing your average off. (ie 1,2,3,4,5 avg 3 but 0,1,2,3,4,5 avg 2.5) I'll have to think about how to include zeros. Shouldn't be hard. Just have to differentiate beteen a blank and a zero. Good catch

I was just think about the median today and realized it wasn't always correct. I was just taking the middle of the list. Okay for even numbered lists but not odd. (or vice versa, will figure it out later {grin}).

If I recall correctly the average was accurate for the numbers entered, but not the differences. A subtotal feature perhaps??

I don't understand what you mean by "differences". The subtotals are only (so far) only totals of contiguous items. They aren't used for anything else. Just notes really.

Rather than go to a menu, could you maybe make the buttons smaller and use a tooltip to clarify the buttons' uses. Keep the "Abandon Ship".

I was thinking of stacking the (smaller) buttons vertically to the right of Grand Total. Tooltips be perfect for that.
I haven't used tootips in years (and then only on one app). I think it was from Wm Burns). Anyone offhand have a pointer to a good example to use?

And Maybe making the textboxes smaller and going to a smaller font and maybe getting 30 to display at one time. Have to see that looks. I hate to have to squint or move closer to read stuff.

Thanks your input Rod. Glad you found it useful. Calculators are great but for a list of numbers there's nothing like having the list in front of you to check for input errors. This is desgned so one doesn't have to move his fingers from the keypad. An adept can go really fast, then review for errors.

Probably post an updated version tonight.

=====================================
"Problems worthy of attack
prove their worth by fighting back."
Paul Erdos (1913-1996)
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**Gösta H. Lovgren-2** · 29 Aug 2009, 08:11 PM

Just posted latest code above reflecting suggestions. Median is now corrected. Zero situation not addressed yet, though.

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"For centuries, theologians have been explaining the unknowable
in terms of the-not-worth-knowing."
Henry Louis Mencken (1880-1956)
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**Rodney Hicks** · 29 Aug 2009, 08:15 PM

Gösta
The items I mentioned previously were 22 books bought in bulk and sold individually.

The books cost $5 for the box and I received from $2.00 to $8.00 for the books that I've sold individually.
I'll provide a shortened listing of my entries to explain:
sale price then minus the purchase price
$ 2.00
-.23
4.50
-.23
3.00
-.23
7.50
-.23
This list has a total 16.08, but an average of 2.01 and your program provided the median of -.23

This would have given a list of subtotals(differences in this case) as such
$ 1.77
4.27
2.77
7.27
This list has a total of 16.08 but an average of 4.02

I hope you understand now what I meant by differences, and note the difference between the averages, sorry I wasn't quite clear before.

There was nothing wrong with the first average, it is just that you might want to have an option for averaging the subtotals as well. Or not.
Since half the numbers were the same, I don't know that having a median of -.23 is wrong but you may want to do the following:
find the median of the numbers -.23, 2.00, 3.00, 4.50, 7.50 (-.23 could be displayed as the mode)
instead of -.23, -23, -23, -23, 2.00, 3.00, 4.50, 7.50

Michael,
I wasn't, and still am not, certain that there was a solution. It seems I may have been using the adding machine in a manner the maker hadn't considered is all. (Why does "If you make something idiot proof, along comes a different kind of idiot." or words to that effect come to mind?)

**Paul Purvis** · 29 Aug 2009, 08:29 PM

Thanks for sharing Gosta.
Please take a look at a calculator i had worked on and a while back and never did get to finish like i wanted to because of poor windows gui skills.
pdptemp.dyndns.org/zipcode/
paulcalc.zip

there is a fredcalc.zip there too. Fred Buffington and i worked on some code back in late 2007
You might find some interesting ideas working a little with the two executables. Neither program got finished, but being you have the ball in your hand now with your project i would like to be supportive.

It looks good and some good thoughts. I went to school for management, advertising and accounting, so i know the need for a good simple calculator.
You have plenty of room to squeeze down your display at the bottom have room for many features.

I do not know if you can do this but here are some suggestions.
Do subtotals all the time, get ride of the check marks.
I do like subtotals in the list and it is ok to start a new subtotal after a blank field. Put total number blank fields (called items) at the bottom, both none blank and blank.
Have the ability to insert and delete a item. For inserting, i would just make it simple as possible. Insert a blank field and have the user type into it.

999 items is will sufficient, to make my program run fastest, i always keepup with the last non blank field for tabulating results.

i would just put all the help in one box something like i did, it will make your life simplier.

In the end, do not let the user bail out so quickly, or only quickly if the number of items are small. It is a lot of work to create list and maybe an auto save feature would work best, they can alway clear the tape.
If you put the total in the window caption, a user can minimize the window and still see the results in the taskbar.

I do not know if you can keep the user from typing into the second column, if you can do that it would be great.
At least only allow comments where field to the left is blank.

If there are blank fields in between fields, you might want to write the number of items that are blank in red large numbers

The payoff to doing a project like this pays off usually every hour of every day by those using it if it is done right and user friendly.

you have my best wishes on this project.

**Gösta H. Lovgren-2** · 29 Aug 2009, 11:20 PM

Originally posted by Rodney Hicks View Post

Gösta
The items I mentioned previously were 22 books bought in bulk and sold individually.

The books cost $5 for the box and I received from $2.00 to $8.00 for the books that I've sold individually.
I'll provide a shortened listing of my entries to explain:
sale price then minus the purchase price
$ 2.00
-.23
4.50
-.23
3.00
-.23
7.50
-.23
This list has a total 16.08, but an average of 2.01 and your program provided the median of -.23

Rod, The average is of all entries so 2.01 is correct in the earlier version. The "new" median (see posts and code above) is .89. (Half the entries are above .89 and half are below.)

You bring up a great idea, though. Parsing each item so that 2.00 - .23 would show 1.77 after pressing Enter. Yup. a good idea I think. In those cases, the item could be shown in the Comments column like the subtotals are now.

I hope you understand now what I meant by differences, and note the difference between the averages, sorry I wasn't quite clear before.

There was nothing wrong with the first average, it is just that you might want to have an option for averaging the subtotals as well. Or not.

Parsing the item for multiple entries would take care of it, I think.

Great great input Rod. I'll start on the parsing idea tomorrow. Maybe add a Subtotal Total button (have to think about that one more though.)

========================
"Always do right
this will gratify some
and astonish the rest."
Mark Twain (1835-1910)
========================

**Gösta H. Lovgren-2** · 30 Aug 2009, 12:08 AM

Originally posted by paul d purvis View Post

Thanks for sharing Gosta.
Please take a look at a calculator i had worked on and a while back and never did get to finish like i wanted to because of poor windows gui skills.
pdptemp.dyndns.org/zipcode/
paulcalc.zip

Sorry, Paul, I could not get that link to work. Last I tried was http://www.pdptemp.dyndns.org/zipcode/paulcalc.zip and it gives a "Navigation Cancelled' error. Maybe you could email it to me, (gosta AT SwedesDock.com) or upload it to the forum

there is a fredcalc.zip there too. Fred Buffington and i worked on some code back in late 2007

Ditto.

You might find some interesting ideas working a little with the two executables. Neither program got finished, but being you have the ball in your hand now with your project i would like to be supportive.

Me, I'm not ashamed to steal ideas. That's for sure. I'm known in my world as "The Ultimate C&P'er" {grin}. Look forward to seeing them both.

It looks good and some good thoughts. I went to school for management, advertising and accounting, so i know the need for a good simple calculator.
You have plenty of room to squeeze down your display at the bottom have room for many features.

I do not know if you can do this but here are some suggestions.
Do subtotals all the time, get ride of the check marks.

I have to think on that. Offhand I kind of think it will make it TOO busy. And I kinda like the checkmarks. {laughing} What would be possible I suppose would be to have "moving" subtotals. Maybe when a new item is Entered, the suntotal appears next to it and erases the previous one. Might be a good idea after all.

I do like subtotals in the list and it is ok to start a new subtotal after a blank field. Put total number blank fields (called items) at the bottom, both none blank and blank.

I'll have to think on that. Dunno why one would want to know the number of blank items. Easy enough to do if there's room left {grin}.

Have the ability to insert and delete a item. For inserting, i would just make it simple as possible. Insert a blank field and have the user type into it.

Excellent idea. Just Press the (F4/F5 or something) key. Presto Chango, new Item inserted/deleted.

999 items is will sufficient, to make my program run fastest, i always keepup with the last non blank field for tabulating results.

I don't understand what you mean here, Paul.

i would just put all the help in one box something like i did, it will make your life simplier.

I'll probably end up putting the Help in a separate overlay Dialog. This format was just Quick and Easy while developing.

In the end, do not let the user bail out so quickly, or only quickly if the number of items are small. It is a lot of work to create list and maybe an auto save feature would work best, they can alway clear the tape.

I've thought about that. Figured I'd get to it when I added the Save/Retrieve features. Will stick in a "Are You Sure?" msgbox now though. Too easy to clear the tape now.

If you put the total in the window caption, a user can minimize the window and still see the results in the taskbar.

Great idea.

I do not know if you can keep the user from typing into the second column, if you can do that it would be great.
At least only allow comments where field to the left is blank.

I'll have to think on that. Not a bad idea but I left room for 100 chars in the comment fields (intend to add a horizontal scrollbar to the column). I was figuring it would be useful when printing the list (Feature not added yet).

If there are blank fields in between fields, you might want to write the number of items that are blank in red large numbers

I don't understand need for that. Not that it could be a good feature but I don't understand why. The item fields are color coded (Pastel Red/Green/Blue/White according to ...) now so they stand out pretty good, I think.

The payoff to doing a project like this pays off usually every hour of every day by those using it if it is done right and user friendly.

"done right"! Now there's a subjective thought. {grin} The problem with neat stuff like this is that it can get too feature rich quick and lose its simplicity. Programmers getting carried away with the Wow! factor. Being a simple (minded) man, I'm hoping I won't do that here. Pretty much at the horizon of my skill levels, dontcha know.

you have my best wishes on this project.

Thank you. And your ideas/comments are much much appreciated. Now I'll go and make a listof stuff to do. Will keep me busy for days, anyway. {sigh, but a good sigh}

Here are notes I made to myself as targets for this wekk:

'

Code:

'
'Designed to mimic an Adding Machine Tape (kids may have seen them in museums)
'Really useful to add lots of numbers like receipts, etc.
'
'http://www.powerbasic.com/support/pbforums/showthread.php?t=41329
'Add - 
' 1) Rolling Subtotals - eliminate Checkmrks
'  a) Use colon (::) to auto preface Comments typed in 
' 2) Parse Item "for +-*/\." ie 10-5 shows 5 after ENTER
'  a) put parsed item in Comments.
'  b) allow */\ action inside Item as well.
'  c) reject anything but 0-9 or +-*//. in Item
' 3) "Are you sure" MB before clearing tape/comments
' 4) Add F11/F12? (Insert/Delete) Item features.
' 5) Put Grand Total in Caption
' 6) in the comment fields (intend to add a horizontal scrollbar to the column).
' 7) 
'
' *******************************************************
'PBWIN 9.01 - WinApi 05/2008 - XP Pro SP3
 '
' *******************************************************

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"He has all the virtues I dislike
and none of the vices I admire."
Winston Churchill
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**Gösta H. Lovgren-2** · 30 Aug 2009, 12:56 AM

Would you believe it? I just now went to bed and thought of

Code:

  ' 7) Auto Actuator button (each item */\+- by the same number (see Rod's example of -.23)

after my head hit the pillow[thunk]. Had to get up, fire everything back up to add it to the list before I forgot. {laughing. Boy I make myself laugh sometimes. Just never know if I'm laughing AT myself or WITH myself.

Oh well, better get back to bed before the Ambien kicks in or lord only knows what kind of ideas I'll come upp with then, Keyboards started to look fuzzy already,

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"The only difference between me
and a madman is that I'm not mad."
Salvador Dali (1904-1989)
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**Gösta H. Lovgren-2** · 30 Aug 2009, 02:52 PM

Rodney, you're gonna love me, baby, after you see this one. Gonna want to plant a great bgiiiig smooch on my cheek. Your choice as to which one.{laughing}

It now has an "actuator" (needs a better name) that is added to each item automatically. Your "-.23" for example.

Paul, folded in a few of your suggestions too. Will add more as time permits. Still thinking on the Subtotals. Hope you guys use it some more to test it out.

Code above updated.

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Faith is the proof of sights unseen
And the promise of things to come.
William Shakespeare
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**Rodney Hicks** · 30 Aug 2009, 04:08 PM

Looking good, Gösta!!!

I have a few more suggestions, wouldn't you know it!

The first:
Since the scrollbar doesn't quite fit into the scheme of Numeric Keypad only input, yet you have used some of its functionality, (it doesn't respond accurately to all mouse clicks), I added a "CONTROL SHOW STATE" line where you have added the Scrollbar as such:

Code:

CONTROL ADD SCROLLBAR, hdlg, %Scrollbar_Id, "", g_Dlg_wd - 20, 1, 15, Row - spcr
  SCROLLBAR SET RANGE hdlg, %Scrollbar_Id, 1, %Items
  CONTROL SHOW STATE hdlg, %Scrollbar_Id, %SW_HIDE

The Page Up and Page Down do pretty good for jumping up and down a list of numbers.

The second:
Since the slash and the asterisk are not functional in your adding machine, could you not perhaps steal them (one anyway) to set the checkbox of the current line?

The third:
This one involves the TAB keypress. It is ignored while focus is in the textboxes, (FUNCTION = %DLGC_WANTALLKEYS ??) but if you were to set the focus on the buttons via a keypress, and if you used suggestion 2, a user would not have to touch the mouse.

**Gösta H. Lovgren-2** · 30 Aug 2009, 05:03 PM

Originally posted by Rodney Hicks View Post

Looking good, Gösta!!!

What? No smooch?

I have a few more suggestions, wouldn't you know it!

The first:
Since the scrollbar doesn't quite fit into the scheme of Numeric Keypad only input, yet you have used some of its functionality, (it doesn't respond accurately to all mouse clicks), I added a "CONTROL SHOW STATE" line where you have added the Scrollbar as such:

Code:

CONTROL ADD SCROLLBAR, hdlg, %Scrollbar_Id, "", g_Dlg_wd - 20, 1, 15, Row - spcr
  SCROLLBAR SET RANGE hdlg, %Scrollbar_Id, 1, %Items
  CONTROL SHOW STATE hdlg, %Scrollbar_Id, %SW_HIDE

The Page Up and Page Down do pretty good for jumping up and down a list of numbers.

The scollbar moves the list up and down faster than the Pg keys. I realize it's not really necessary but I don't think it distracts or takes away anything.

The second:
Since the slash and the asterisk are not functional in your adding machine, could you not perhaps steal them (one anyway) to set the checkbox of the current line?

It's in my head to use *\/ for the "actuator" to have multiply/divide, but no reason /* could not be used as Shorcuts to the Checkboxes as well. I'll put it on the list.

The third:
This one involves the TAB keypress. It is ignored while focus is in the textboxes, (FUNCTION = %DLGC_WANTALLKEYS ??) but if you were to set the focus on the buttons via a keypress, and if you used suggestion 2, a user would not have to touch the mouse.

[/quote]
Not sure I understand but I think I want the user to actually have to click the buttons while in the Items field. I'll have to think on it. Maybe Ctl key combination. On the list but low priority right now.

I want to user to be able to go confidently fast and not worry about "hitting a wrong key".

Keep the ideas coming.

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"Any technical problem can be overcome
given enough time and money.
Corollary -
You are never given enough time or money."
Lerman's Law of Technology
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