Cloud Apps

[Gary Beene]

I've done Perl server-based scripts before so I have some experience in creating a web app - where PSP/JavaScript/HTML5 come into play for providing the user interface within a browser and where the Perl script runs in the background on the server.

As best I know, trying to create a web app from something like gbSnippets would mean a major rewrite - creating the interface from other languages and using PowerBASIC for the shovel work on a Windows server.

Is that about right?

[Stuart McLachlan]

Yes

[David Clarke]

Garry, are you saying you have never done a PowerBasic CGI type program? Or am I misunderstanding your question. Happy to help "jump start" you if you need help.

[Stuart McLachlan]

What do you mean by a "web app" ?

Isn't this what you are talking about?
http://www.garybeene.com/power/code/

[Stuart McLachlan]

Or do you mean creating a full blow application which lets the user store and search their own information (like gbSnippets). If so, where would their data be stored (and who will pay for that storage)? I wouldn't see a need for PB at all in that situation, just a BE database and a FE developed in something like PHP.

[Stuart McLachlan]

As an aside, I just looked at the source behind your .../power/code page.
The use of DIV, margins, UL and LI tags would save thousands of NBSPs

[Gary Beene]

Howdy, David!

Nope - I've never done a PowerBASIC CGI type program. I don't have a for sure need at this time. I was just checking into the topic to make sure I had the gist of it correct. When I have a more specific need I will raise my hand. Thanks for the offer!


Howdy, Stuart!

Yes, I meant a full blown application like gbSnippets. Data to be stored on the server. There are procedures in gbSnippets that do background calculations so I'm guessing that while most of the code would go away, some CGI functions would be necessary. I'd not want to rewrite functions in general so re-using the PowerBASIC code would seem to be desirable to the maximum extent possible. Either way, it would be a major rewrite.

Gosh, I haven't looked at the code in ages. I've no doubt it's horribly inefficient but as long as it gives the result I want I'm not likely to spend the time to work on it. But I'll keep your suggestion handy for when I might want to make some formatting changes to the page.

[Mike Doty]

You may be able to run your own Windows business server with 940mbps up and down for $60 a month.
CenturyLink has teamed up with with another fiber company Quantum Fiber. www.q.com/hello.
They are available at my address in Omaha and it looks like they are working in some Texas towns.
This is a big deal since most ISP's do not allow executable programs and the upload speed is never this good.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Omaha/comme...quantum_fiber/

I don't think it comes with a static ip address. Checking on it later today.
This seems like a better deal for $65: https://www.centurylink.com/small-business/

[Gary Beene]

Howdy, Mike!

Thanks for the information. I'll check it out. It might be worth the cost for a couple of month just to get some experience with the topic - when I'm not so busy (as if that ever seems to happen! )

[Paul Dixon]

I run PB exe programs on a cheap, shared, Windows web server.
The main functionality of the program is the same as on a Windows PC, just the user interface needs changing.
Mine use simple HTML pages and forms to exchange information with the user when run on the server.

I typically have a single program which runs on either.
The program determines if it's running on the server or not and reacts accordingly.

[Mike Doty]

Gary,
Took forever to find out that quantumfiber does not allow static ip addresses.
CenturyLink only sells them to there DSL clients. I knew this was too good to be true.
I don't know if using a dynamic dns server would work with this. It still is a good deal for high speed.
Not sure an ssl certificate would work with dynamic dns to an address with the ISP in it.
If I find anything more on if a server can be run on port 80 I'll be back.

Paul,
I can't run a server on a local machine without breaking service agreement.

This page says you can run your web site: https://www.centurylink.com/small-bu...usiness-fiber/
Upload and download massive files in a fraction of the time it takes a cable connection.
Run your website and support HD video conferencing, online file sharing and cloud backups

[Michael Mattias]

Nope - I've never done a PowerBASIC CGI type program. I don't have a for sure need at this time.

But have you seriously considered it might be "right" for this particular application?

[Gary Beene]

Howdy, MCM!

At this point, I'm just trying to understand the mechanics of running an app from the cloud.

The ease in bringing up new users is one attractive feature of having a cloud version, as well as ensuring that users are accessing the latest version of the software.

But a cloud version also has to support multiple users, complicating the app design.


Howdy, Paul!

Thanks, your description is consistent with how I understand it would work. The PowerBASIC app running on the server might have a user interface for the administrator, but the user interface comes from web page content.

All of my apps have a lot of code related to the user interface, so creating a cloud-based equivalent user interface would likely mean a lot of rewrite.

I'd be interested in experimenting with it. Who provides the server that allows you to run PowerBASIC EXE's? Do they have to approve the EXE in any way?

[Paul Dixon]

Paul,
I can't run a server on a local machine without breaking service agreement.

I don't do that.
I have cheap, shared hosting on a Windows based server and my PB EXE files run on that server.

[David Clarke]

Gary:
I am happy to talk on the phone with you.

I LOVE using PBCC as my backend and have done tons of "things"

Go look at https://verolock.com/ - that is one of my products - see the VeroLock® Cloud?? All PBCC with SQL Server behind it. Fill in the contact page and press the button. All PBCC.

I have tried lots of web tools and love PBCC the most. I have all sorts of library's.

Also do you know you can use your Windows PC as a webserver right out of the box - to test and play with stuff.

Here is some simple HTML CSS to look at. The PBCC program uses this as a input file and (in this example) replaces <DC_TAG_TITLE> with the actual page name.
Basically I think you need a HELLO WORLD example and some bits and pieces to get it...

[B][FONT=Courier New]<!DOCTYPE HTML>
<html lang="en">
<head>


<meta charset="utf-8">
<title><DC_TAG_TITLE></title>
<style>


body {margin:0; font-family:sans-serif;}


/* HEADER NAV CSS */
header                {height:48px;}
.header_content_container {width:100%; background-color:#fafafa; border-top:darkgray solid 1px; border-bottom:darkgray solid 1px;}
.header_flex_nav   {display:flex; width:100%; font-size:12px;}

.nav_item {margin: 0px 8px 0px 8px; padding: 2px 6px 2px 6px; font-weight:bold; white-space: nowrap; }

.nav_item:link       {color:#555555; text-decoration:none;}
.nav_item:visited    {color:#555555; text-decoration:none;}
.nav_item:hover      {color:#555555; background-color:#b0daff; text-decoration:none;}
.nav_item:active     {color:#555555; text-decoration:none;}
.nav_label           {color:#555555; margin: 0px 8px 0px 8px; padding: 2px 6px 2px 6px; font-weight:bold; white-space: nowrap;}

.header_content_two_zone_flex {display:flex; justify-content:space-between;}
.item_flex_left               {justify-content: flex-start;}
.item_flex_right              {justify-content: flex-end;}



</style>
</head>

<body class=application>

<header>
<div class=header_content_container>
<div class=header_content_two_zone_flex>
<div class=item_flex_left>
<div class="header_flex_nav">
<a href="" class=nav_item>File</a>
<a href="" class=nav_item>Edit</a>
<a href="" class=nav_item>Tools</a>
<a href="" class=nav_item>View</a>
<a href="" class=nav_item>Database</a>
</div>
</div>
<div class=item_flex_right>
<div class="header_flex_nav">
<div class=nav_label>v2.4</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</header>

</body>
</html>[/FONT][/B]

[Bud Durland]

I've made several CGI pages (not interactive, so afraid to call them "apps") with PB/CC, mostly for dumping data from a database. All I can contribute to his thread beyond what's already been said is that I much prefer doing PB based CGI on Apache rather than IIS.

[Mike Doty]

You can use your own machine as a dedicated server if your ISP has business internet.
Subtract the price of what you are paying now.
Gives you complete control without having to login to a remote server.
It could be faster since you don't share a remote virtual shared host,
You can execute anything you want and get creative with any folders.

[Steve Hutchesson]

I have a theory about cloud, pull your head out of it and buy a few BIG hard disks and all of your worries and security risks will be over. About the only reason I can see for using cloud storage if if it has to be accessed from different places on the internet in what may be different countries. If its local storage on your LAN, you bypass all of the security risks and usually pick up access speed as well.

[Dale Yarker]

I've made several CGI pages (not interactive, so afraid to call them "apps") with PB/CC, mostly for dumping data from a database. All I can contribute to his thread beyond what's already been said is that I much prefer doing PB based CGI on Apache rather than IIS.

Yeap. Apache for Windows came with a warning about "in development" or something like that; still made IIS look "amateur hour"

[Stuart McLachlan]

Yeap. Apache for Windows came with a warning about "in development" or something like that; still made IIS look "amateur hour"

??? "in development" ??? You mean it's not abandonware and they periodically release updates? That's hardly a warning

FWIW, Ver 2.4 was released 10 years ago and there have only been occassional minor patch upgrades since. The latest 2.4.54 came out two months ago.

FWIW, I've been developing websites and LAN/Browser based systems using Apache on Windows for at least 12 years and never run into an issue with it. I use WAMPServer (WIndows,Apache,MySQL,PHP)
https://www.wampserver.com/en/

Added: The Apache foundation don't release binaries, they leave it up to other people to compile them for various platforms, so I'd guess that your "in development" note was from a third party that was compiling and releasing a WIndows binary. If you stick with one of the major distributions such as WAMPServer (previously just called WAMP), XAMPP, Apache Haus, Apache Lounge, Bitnami, you can be pretty sure that the binary is solid.