PwrDev on Suse (Linux)

[Edwin Knoppert]

I have 0,0 time for testing things under Linux.
I know it runs and compiles.
I just needed to rewrite the MDI part i misused somewhat.

Friday i have tested our bigger Borland c-builder / PowerBASIC application.
The app uses richedit with hyperlinks and that fails.
My PB part does crash when invoked, but we didn't investigate what went wrong, can be anything..

Rule me out from testing besides simple running an app and terminate..

[Brice Manuel]

Brice, neither you nor John have ever seen my source code so to say that I use obscure API calls is simply being uninformed.

Most of the software you buy today will not work on 95/98. Increasingly you see software that requires XP SP1 or SP2.

I used to have EZGUI and you are quite proud of the fact that you maintain compatibility with Windows '95. The only was you can do that is by using some of the more obsecure APIs that have been left in, but are not widely used anymore because they either are not normally used or they have been replaced by something else, which in many cases is faster.

Windows has seen major changes in each version, in particular to the graphical capabilities. Just as they have axed backwards compatibility with their gaming APIs, this will eventually be hitting the desktop in greater force than it already has. I can't speak for John, but that is what I was referring to (And I think he was referring to) when we used the term "obsecure api calls".

[John Spikowski]

I think the CrossOver/Wine solution is good news for PowerBASIC programmers that may have developed a custom application and have been wondering how to serve the Linux and Mac market as it grows. It looks like CO/Wine works pretty well with PowerBASIC compiled applications based on some of the more complex apps tested so far like PwrDev and thinBasic.

The great news is that with every bug fix, it enables more Windows software to run cross platform. Having options is always a good thing as Microsoft struggles to maintain their dominance in the OS market.


John

[Brice Manuel]

I agree 100% with John.

[Chris Boss]

Brice,

Again, just because EZGUI is compatible with Win95/98 does not mean it uses obscure API's. I check the API docs carefully to make sure I am not using older API's that have a good chance of being removed in future versions of Windows.

EZGUI tests to see what operating system is running and then uses specific API's based on the OS. When there is a chance one OS may not support something, EZGUI uses CALL DWORD instead of a direct call to the API. It polls the OS for the function address and if found uses it and if not it doesn't.

If the API docs say a function has been kept for backward compatibility (ie. for 16 bit Win), I avoid it.

Again you have no idea what API's I use without seeing my code and to assume I use obscure API's it simply unfair.

If you notice Edwins last post he confirms that hyperlinks in the richedit are broken on CrossOver. That is a more recent API feature, not an old one and it does not work on CrossOver.

This proves my point that CrossOver may have a number of flaws in its support of the Windows API, which means that it is not a fault in EZGUI using some obscure API, but the fault is in CrossOver.

Rather than waste your time trashing my software, wouldn't it be better to simply benefit from the feedback about CrossOver. I have a real interest in CrossOver and I am not trashing it. CrossOver simply needs to be tested more thoroughly with a variety of Windows apps to see where its weaknesses are so they can be fixed. CrossOver (and Wine) are a massive undertaking. It will take some time for it to get to the level necessary for running many Windows apps.

It should be noted, that using long time API's in Windows will likely produce better software that will run on CrossOver. Microsoft is moving towards newer technologies (ie. dot net) which CrossOver will not likely be able to run or may never be able to run.

[Edwin Knoppert]

John, PwrDev distributes TLB and shows ~3 items.
It shows the shell explorer (webbrowser).
Any (brief) idea why my atl/webbrowser fails?
WB would be cool..

[Chris Boss]

John and Brice,

I would think you would be happy that I am trying to work with CrossOver to help make it more compatible with Windows. I have already given CrossOver some direct support by making a number of test applications available to them so they can find the weak areas so they can be fixed.

It would be appreciated if you could give the criticisms about EZGUI a break and rather concentrate on positive comments about helping make CrossOver better. That would benefit Powerbasic users more. You both appear to have some problems with me, so I would suggest you leave it alone on these forums.

CrossOver is already in contact with me, so let them work out whether the problems I reported are caused by EZGUI or by CrossOver. They appear to be very open to feedback about incompatibilities between Windows and CrossOver.

[Edwin Knoppert]

>CrossOver (and Wine) are a massive undertaking.
Yes and i am suprised that they can support pretty big and well known apps this way.
So it's not 100% bug for simple or careful written software it may be useful.
Note that Linux is often used as embedded (free) system.
Making it possible for us to make Windows apps work can be handy.

[Edwin Knoppert]

I wished i could make Wine installed on suse 10.3 but due lack of knowledge and unpredictable results i strand each time.
I am really curious how to make an app to work with Wine only.
The unpacker just stops..

Free = cool

[Brice Manuel]

If you notice Edwins last post he confirms that hyperlinks in the richedit are broken on CrossOver. That is a more recent API feature, not an old one and it does not work on CrossOver.

That is a perfect example of one of the many obscure things not supported currently in Crossover.

Rather than waste your time trashing my software,

Nobody is trashing your software. And I am sure you could go on two days straight explaining how great and superior you and EZGUI are.

The fact remains that all of this software listed at the following link works with Crossover:

http://www.codeweavers.com/compatibility/browse/name/

PowerBasic seems to work flawlessly, too. You reported a problem with EZGUI, John (and later myself) tried to point out why you might be having a problem when all of those other 1,819 companies listed do not. The more obscure the APIs are that you are using, the more problems you will run into with products like Crossover.

Sometimes I wonder why I even bother to try and help.

*sighs* I give up. You are on your own

[John Spikowski]

John and Brice,

I would think you would be happy that I am trying to work with CrossOver to help make it more compatible with Windows. I have already given CrossOver some direct support by making a number of test applications available to them so they can find the weak areas so they can be fixed.

It would be appreciated if you could give the criticisms about EZGUI a break and rather concentrate on positive comments about helping make CrossOver better. That would benefit Powerbasic users more. You both appear to have some problems with me, so I would suggest you leave it alone on these forums.

CrossOver is already in contact with me, so let them work out whether the problems I reported are caused by EZGUI or by CrossOver. They appear to be very open to feedback about incompatibilities between Windows and CrossOver.

Chris,

I wish Codeweavers would hire you. It's programmers like you that push the envelope and try to maintain a wider window of compatibility then most that helps make Wine a better solution.

The only advice I have for you is take off the opinion blinders from time to time and read the posts a couple times before leaping into areas your not up to speed with. The forum members here are some of the best programmers in the industry and you could benefit from their wisdom.

John

[Edwin Knoppert]

>If you notice Edwins last post he confirms that hyperlinks in the richedit are broken on CrossOver. That is a more recent API feature, not an old one and it does not work on CrossOver.

Well, it's not that i really did a thorough test, my collegue stood next to me and explained that these where rtf panels with links or hyperlinks.
They failed and some text showed, not sure it was some protected (rtf) field or whatever.

So there is something but personally i am aware that hl's where added later on, we could assume this was the error.

Then again, it's a minor issue imo.
The lack of chm help made it crash as well, possibly the app expects a function pointer and is ignored.
Lack of chm help is also a minor issue imo.
The app must run properly, that's more important.
You can't blame them for me using tweaks like moving a popup window to a parent and make it a child for example.

[Chris Boss]

Brice,

If you browse the list of apps on the crossover web site, its not like they all worked flawlessy on CrossOver. Many simply are listed, but not tested yet, many are listed and they work just somewhat.

http://www.codeweavers.com/compatibi...pany_id=1;sort

(click the column header for the column where the ranking is such as Gold, bronze, etc.)

Take a look at the Microsoft apps listed. The link above lists them in order of the best working to the least. Notice the Microsoft Office apps that work the best are office 2000 and not 2007. That is seven year old software. Older versions of Microsoft software are more likely to work well than more current.

If you read careful, even a so called "bronze" ranking only means the software does run on crossover and some features work as intended (but not all). EZGUI could easily fit that ranking, since it does run (the designer) and most of the sample apps do work (but some don't).

In all fairness, it would be wrong to give other PB'ers the idea that CrossOver/Wine is currently at a state where most well written Windows applications will run flawlessly on it. That is simply not true. I applaud the efforts of Wine/CrossOver to take on such an undertaking, but I also realize it will take some time to even get close to that goal.

John, give me a break please. You obviously don't like me or my "style" (when it comes to programming) or something. I appreciate more than you realize the quality of programmers that visit these forums and there are some I am simply in awe of their abilities as programmers. It would be nice if you could refrain from making negative remarks about the motives or quality of my work. I have been a third party developer for addons for Powerbasic for over 8 years and I spend a good bit of time posting on the PB forums to answer API questions when I can to be helpful. I have provided freeware tools as well for PB'ers. Sometimes I get it right. Sometimes I may be in error. No programmer is perfect, especially me. But I spend a lot of time in support of the Powerbasic community of programmers. It would be a shame to attack programmers of my experience with Powerbasic and the API so that they no longer want to visit these forums.

[Edwin Knoppert]

I just bought Crossover, it's version 7.02 afaik and it seems to support chm files.
While it's a bare bones implementation it's sufficient for normal use:

http://www.hellobasic.com/images/pwrdevchmonlinux.png

[Brice Manuel]

Good to see Edwin. Is PowerDev written in PB? If so, can I have permission to post that shot over at the Crossover PB page?

So far I have not run into any problems with PB under Crossover. This weekend I will be posting a shot or two of some PB games being run under Crossover.

[Edwin Knoppert]

>Is PowerDev written in PB?
Yes, PwrDev is compiled with PB8.04 and C# (partly)

>If so, can I have permission to post that shot over at the Crossover PB
page?
The image is fine but i won't like to be on their apps list or any kind of list over there.
If you want a better image..?

--

For the crossover fokes..
The installation is weird, it just stops, i installed it numerous times and even threw away 2 vmware 'pc's' and started over.
After installation it just doesn't mention anything, under 'other software' you'll find the CO part.

Then of course it's normal to install applications in a separate 'bottle' each time.
That's sort of a sandbox.
During the trial i discovered i could locate the simulated c drive forlder and run any exe or install any Windows app from there without any CO dialog.

Today i started over and named the single bottle with a custom name.. don't!
Make a 'default' bottle otherwise you may lose that much better but somewhat hidden feature i just mentioned.

The best thing CO could do is install itself and provide a shortcut to the c-drive and forget all the nonsense like install windows software dialogs and bottles.
Therefore me mentioning it.

Another thing i briefly tested was creating a text document in an ordinary Linux folder.
Once created i used PBEdit to open it.
Iow you can navigate towards these folders and access these Linux files.
That makes using Windows software a better thing already.

So far my 'Linux for Dummies' remarks.
Oh boy.. if something goes wrong, i am completely lost.
The Linux environment is so off..
As long the GUI works it's really cool to see it working..

[Edwin Knoppert]

I have uploaded a new image (same link)

[Brice Manuel]

Thank you Edwin. I submitted it, I believe they have to approve it before it gets actually posted